Hello
I just read on the homepage of the Swedish Pirate Party that they
offered Feldmahler to take over the site IMSLP and the responsibility
for in an effort to re-open the site for the public. My opinion: this would
be a very good solution - for Feldmahler who could see the revival
of his project and for all of us (the user´s community).
Sincerely
The Swedish Pirate Party
Moderator: kcleung
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Odin
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Swedish Pirate Party takes over IMSLP ?
Hello
I hope they will really do it. They promised it on their
homepage. If they do it - I will join the party and try to
offer them to take a part of this speciel responsibility,
being quite familiar with classical music and scores.
Now the next precondition is that Feldmahler will give
the party his approval and hand over all the files.
I myself have started to "deal" with UE in my own way,
using the fact that German is my first language and
that UE was founded in Vienna, Austria.
Sincerely
I hope they will really do it. They promised it on their
homepage. If they do it - I will join the party and try to
offer them to take a part of this speciel responsibility,
being quite familiar with classical music and scores.
Now the next precondition is that Feldmahler will give
the party his approval and hand over all the files.
I myself have started to "deal" with UE in my own way,
using the fact that German is my first language and
that UE was founded in Vienna, Austria.
Sincerely
Odin
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Yagan Kiely
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- Contact:
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Odin
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Approval as permission
Hello
Of course I meant that Mr. Feldmahler should hand over the
whole site to the Swedish Pirate Party and give them his
permission to run the site on the party´s own responsibility.
I also think that the party should give Mr. Feldmahler some
kind of economic compensation (= money) for all the work
he laid down as the administrator. The party could easily
collect this money among its members. I would like to
contribute to this solution of the problem both economically
and with some practical work. In order to do this I would
also accept to become a party member.
Sincerely
Of course I meant that Mr. Feldmahler should hand over the
whole site to the Swedish Pirate Party and give them his
permission to run the site on the party´s own responsibility.
I also think that the party should give Mr. Feldmahler some
kind of economic compensation (= money) for all the work
he laid down as the administrator. The party could easily
collect this money among its members. I would like to
contribute to this solution of the problem both economically
and with some practical work. In order to do this I would
also accept to become a party member.
Sincerely
Odin
-
Funper
- Copyright Reviewer
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:45 pm
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Jag har läst det du skrivit på piratpartiets forum Odin, och som admin här kan jag säga dig ett och annat.
Vi vill inte ha något att göra med er anti-upphovsrättsliga organisation. Vi vill inte ha några godvilliga optimister som röra om och möblerar här. Ni, som efter era egna observation anser att lösningen ligger på att ta bort kompositörer som dött efter 1937, har knappast någon förmåga att kunna ta del av relevant information, någonting som man bör kunna när man ska styra och ställa.
Vi vill inte ha något att göra med er anti-upphovsrättsliga organisation. Vi vill inte ha några godvilliga optimister som röra om och möblerar här. Ni, som efter era egna observation anser att lösningen ligger på att ta bort kompositörer som dött efter 1937, har knappast någon förmåga att kunna ta del av relevant information, någonting som man bör kunna när man ska styra och ställa.
Det är ingen fråga om vem som kan och vem som förmår, snarare är det en fråga om organisativt stöd. Feldmahler här har inte släppt ansvaret för siten. Dock kan han inte längre hantera den juridiska pressen.Han verkar ju själv vara mätt på att driva siten, så det är väl fråga att hitta någon annan som kan vara "chef" också, möjligen.
Ingenting här kan "köpas" som du skrev på piratpartiets forums, släpp den tanken. Allt är gratis. Om ni vill kan ni lika gärna ladda ner hela site dumpen och sätta upp ert eget lilla IMSLP.Jag skulle kunna tänka mig att köpa loss hela registret
<ironi>Snälla kom och driv vår site!</ironi>. Nej tack, det klarar vi av bra själva. Nog ska den dagen aldrig komma då vi behöver er hjälp, så preciösa som ni är. Tack för visat intresse!Att driva siten är dock lite svårare, det ska vi nog inte ge oss in på.
I hope everybody here understands that the pirate party is a political organisation with certain political goals. By moving imslp to their servers you are supporting these goals, so please read their principles and make sure that you do agree with their views before you jump to any conclusions: http://docs.piratpartiet.se/Principles%203.0.pdf
I have read them and can say that I do agree with much of what they are saying, some copyright laws of today are a bit ridiculous, especially regarding non-commercial use. However, I believe their goals are rather extreme. No restrictions on non-commercial use, no restrictions on creating derivative works and copyright for five years from the publication of the work for commercial use. The first one wouldn't work in practise, because it would provide too many loopholes to get around regulations regarding protected materials, the second one would flood the shelves in our department stores with "greatest hits on panflute" CD's (which are a major pain in the buttocks already) and it would also provide too many loopholes exploit protected material, but the third one is the worst.
I've heard the "five years" suggestion before, by people who refer to popular culture. The biggest pop stars release an album, backed up by a huge marketing engine, sell 50,000 records in the first weekend and millions in the first year. Five years later the music is already considered old and should therefore be public domain, according to those who believe in this five year rule. The argument is usually continued by saying that by this time, the artist is already filthy rich and has earned the money to compensate for their creative efforts, and if the music still is popular, they may still make money on it by selling concert tickets.
However, IMSLP is not about popular music, I believe the majority of us here are classical musicians. The world of contemporary classical composers is very different from popular culture. A symphony, that might be the result of several years of hard work, is not backed up by a huge marketing engine, it is not played on the radio several times a day, the composer cannot go "on tour" and perform it around the world several times a week and it most certainly doesn't sell 50,000 records in the first weekend. Very few works even get a second performance in five years from the first performance. It usually takes several years, if not decades, before even the small circles of contemporary music lovers become aware of new masterpieces. Mostly it takes a lot longer for the work to earn a reputation to attract an audience large enough to fill a concert hall. The majority of the few works that orchestras program as "new music" are at least twenty years old. It takes years and years of hard work for any composer to build up such a name that any of his music starts bringing in money. And if he eventually reaches that position, most of the income comes from works that are at least five years old. In the hypothetical world that the pirate party is aiming for, no composer of concert music would be able to survive. A law such as the one they propose would deliver the final blow that would end the fine tradition we know as classical music. Does IMSLP want to support this ideology?
I'm sure their intentions are good, but the principles seem more than a bit naive and narrow minded to me. With a "publication +5 years" law, the only way to get true compensation for any artistic work would be with the help of a huge marketing engine. This would serve to increase the power of large corporations like record labels. Their principles mostly talk about the citizen's right to free culture. The swedish word for copyright is "upphovsrätt", which would translate to "right of the author". This is what copyright is about, it exists to protect the author's rights, not the rights of the public. An artist has the right to feed himself and even to feed his children. The current system where artists also feed their great great grandchildren might be a bit overkill, but bringing it to the other extreme, as proposed by the pirate party, would be nothing but harmful to our cultural environment.
I have read them and can say that I do agree with much of what they are saying, some copyright laws of today are a bit ridiculous, especially regarding non-commercial use. However, I believe their goals are rather extreme. No restrictions on non-commercial use, no restrictions on creating derivative works and copyright for five years from the publication of the work for commercial use. The first one wouldn't work in practise, because it would provide too many loopholes to get around regulations regarding protected materials, the second one would flood the shelves in our department stores with "greatest hits on panflute" CD's (which are a major pain in the buttocks already) and it would also provide too many loopholes exploit protected material, but the third one is the worst.
I've heard the "five years" suggestion before, by people who refer to popular culture. The biggest pop stars release an album, backed up by a huge marketing engine, sell 50,000 records in the first weekend and millions in the first year. Five years later the music is already considered old and should therefore be public domain, according to those who believe in this five year rule. The argument is usually continued by saying that by this time, the artist is already filthy rich and has earned the money to compensate for their creative efforts, and if the music still is popular, they may still make money on it by selling concert tickets.
However, IMSLP is not about popular music, I believe the majority of us here are classical musicians. The world of contemporary classical composers is very different from popular culture. A symphony, that might be the result of several years of hard work, is not backed up by a huge marketing engine, it is not played on the radio several times a day, the composer cannot go "on tour" and perform it around the world several times a week and it most certainly doesn't sell 50,000 records in the first weekend. Very few works even get a second performance in five years from the first performance. It usually takes several years, if not decades, before even the small circles of contemporary music lovers become aware of new masterpieces. Mostly it takes a lot longer for the work to earn a reputation to attract an audience large enough to fill a concert hall. The majority of the few works that orchestras program as "new music" are at least twenty years old. It takes years and years of hard work for any composer to build up such a name that any of his music starts bringing in money. And if he eventually reaches that position, most of the income comes from works that are at least five years old. In the hypothetical world that the pirate party is aiming for, no composer of concert music would be able to survive. A law such as the one they propose would deliver the final blow that would end the fine tradition we know as classical music. Does IMSLP want to support this ideology?
I'm sure their intentions are good, but the principles seem more than a bit naive and narrow minded to me. With a "publication +5 years" law, the only way to get true compensation for any artistic work would be with the help of a huge marketing engine. This would serve to increase the power of large corporations like record labels. Their principles mostly talk about the citizen's right to free culture. The swedish word for copyright is "upphovsrätt", which would translate to "right of the author". This is what copyright is about, it exists to protect the author's rights, not the rights of the public. An artist has the right to feed himself and even to feed his children. The current system where artists also feed their great great grandchildren might be a bit overkill, but bringing it to the other extreme, as proposed by the pirate party, would be nothing but harmful to our cultural environment.
I don't want to get into this copyright vs. copyleft dispute, but I would argue the post-1923 copyright and things like it are the major cause of the decline of contemporary classical music. When every study score of the past 80 years costs money, it's no wonder most musicians don't bother to learn about, let alone play music by contemporary composers.
Witold, are you a representative of the Pirate Party? It seems to me that moving imslp to their administration is purely a practical move, as they have the resources to defend and maintain it. Furthermore, they will not remove music from the database just because it is copyrighted somewhere, but not everywhere.
Witold, are you a representative of the Pirate Party? It seems to me that moving imslp to their administration is purely a practical move, as they have the resources to defend and maintain it. Furthermore, they will not remove music from the database just because it is copyrighted somewhere, but not everywhere.
Studying composition at University of Southern California.
Am I a representative of the Pirate Party? Perhaps I was a bit too subtle in my criticism... I'll have another shot at explaining this as clearly as possible:
The Pirate Party is a political movement that drives a political agenda. Moving imspl to their administration will give them a lot of publicity and thus support their agenda. I find their agenda extremely naive and narrow-minded and dangerous to our cultural environment. Therefore I don't want imslp to have anything to do with this organisation.
I don't want to get into any copyright vs. copyleft dispute either, neither do I want imslp to do so. The purpose of imslp is to provide the public with the scores that they legally have right to. Not to change these laws.
The Pirate Party is a political movement that drives a political agenda. Moving imspl to their administration will give them a lot of publicity and thus support their agenda. I find their agenda extremely naive and narrow-minded and dangerous to our cultural environment. Therefore I don't want imslp to have anything to do with this organisation.
I don't want to get into any copyright vs. copyleft dispute either, neither do I want imslp to do so. The purpose of imslp is to provide the public with the scores that they legally have right to. Not to change these laws.
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Odin
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varifrån detta hat ?
Hej Funper
Jag begriper inte varför Du är så öppet hatisk mot folk och mot en ny politisk rörelse som egentligen bara vill hjälpa till.
I en annan tråd här ganska nära skrev jag uttryckligen att Feldmahler och hans medadministratörer självklart är de enda som har rätt att bestämma hur och av vem siten kommer att drivas i framtiden. Det vill jag klarlägga, jag vet exakt vem som har förfoganderätten över siten, nämligen de som jobbat mest med den och hittills burit ansvaret, nämligen Feldmahler och hans kompisar.
Två av textcitaten ovan härstammar inte från mina inlägg, det kan jag se på formuleringarna. Därför åtar jag mig inte helelr den hårda kritiken.
Det finns krafter inom piratpartirörelsen som helt och hållet vill stryka bort upphovsrätten, men den stora gemensamma linjen är nog snarare att upphovsrätten bör reformeras, anpassas till dagens IT-värld samt göras generösare mot icke-kommersiella användare.
Ditt hatutbrott mot mig och mot ett nygrundat parti som jag sympatiserar med men inte tillhör får Du stå för själv. Jag kan inte ens följa Dina tankar. om Du läser mera på partiets forum kommer Du att upptäcka att vi diskuterar frågor kring upphovsrätt, patent och personlig integritet på en hög nivå.
Men vi kan gärna träffas privat i Stockholm nästa vecka och räta ut lite trådar där. Märk väl att det då blir ett sammanträffande mellan privatpersoner. Jag är som redan nämnt inte medlem i något politiskt parti.
MVH
Jag begriper inte varför Du är så öppet hatisk mot folk och mot en ny politisk rörelse som egentligen bara vill hjälpa till.
I en annan tråd här ganska nära skrev jag uttryckligen att Feldmahler och hans medadministratörer självklart är de enda som har rätt att bestämma hur och av vem siten kommer att drivas i framtiden. Det vill jag klarlägga, jag vet exakt vem som har förfoganderätten över siten, nämligen de som jobbat mest med den och hittills burit ansvaret, nämligen Feldmahler och hans kompisar.
Inom piratpartirörelsen finns ännu ingen fast gemensam linje hur framtidens upphovsrätt bör utformas. Jag själv har lagt fram min personliga åsikt, inte någon partilinje för ett parti som jag inte tillhör i dagsläget och i vars namn jag inte är auktoriserad att tala.Funper wrote:Jag har läst det du skrivit på piratpartiets forum Odin, och som admin här kan jag säga dig ett och annat.
Vi vill inte ha något att göra med er anti-upphovsrättsliga organisation. Vi vill inte ha några godvilliga optimister som röra om och möblerar här. Ni, som efter era egna observation anser att lösningen ligger på att ta bort kompositörer som dött efter 1937, har knappast någon förmåga att kunna ta del av relevant information, någonting som man bör kunna när man ska styra och ställa.Det är ingen fråga om vem som kan och vem som förmår, snarare är det en fråga om organisativt stöd. Feldmahler här har inte släppt ansvaret för siten. Dock kan han inte längre hantera den juridiska pressen.Han verkar ju själv vara mätt på att driva siten, så det är väl fråga att hitta någon annan som kan vara "chef" också, möjligen.Ingenting här kan "köpas" som du skrev på piratpartiets forums, släpp den tanken. Allt är gratis. Om ni vill kan ni lika gärna ladda ner hela site dumpen och sätta upp ert eget lilla IMSLP.Jag skulle kunna tänka mig att köpa loss hela registret<ironi>Snälla kom och driv vår site!</ironi>. Nej tack, det klarar vi av bra själva. Nog ska den dagen aldrig komma då vi behöver er hjälp, så preciösa som ni är. Tack för visat intresse!Att driva siten är dock lite svårare, det ska vi nog inte ge oss in på.
Två av textcitaten ovan härstammar inte från mina inlägg, det kan jag se på formuleringarna. Därför åtar jag mig inte helelr den hårda kritiken.
Det finns krafter inom piratpartirörelsen som helt och hållet vill stryka bort upphovsrätten, men den stora gemensamma linjen är nog snarare att upphovsrätten bör reformeras, anpassas till dagens IT-värld samt göras generösare mot icke-kommersiella användare.
Ditt hatutbrott mot mig och mot ett nygrundat parti som jag sympatiserar med men inte tillhör får Du stå för själv. Jag kan inte ens följa Dina tankar. om Du läser mera på partiets forum kommer Du att upptäcka att vi diskuterar frågor kring upphovsrätt, patent och personlig integritet på en hög nivå.
Men vi kan gärna träffas privat i Stockholm nästa vecka och räta ut lite trådar där. Märk väl att det då blir ett sammanträffande mellan privatpersoner. Jag är som redan nämnt inte medlem i något politiskt parti.
MVH
Odin
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Odin
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This was a personal reply
Hello
Sincerely
My Swedish text was a very personal reply to another contributer´s text in Swedish. I felt personally hurt and intimidated by his comments which contained an attack directed against my person and false statements about my personal motives. That´s why. Other writers here do not need to understand my text.Matthieu wrote:May I suggest you to start a Swedish speaking thread. I am sorry but your post is most likely useless for a vaste majority of readers.
Sincerely
Odin