Mahler Symphony no 9

[worov]

Hi, everybody !

I have found a scan of Symphony, edited by Erwin Ratz (Universal Edition). The title page says :

Vorgelegt von Erwin Ratz 1968
Korrigierte Ausflage 1998.

May I upload this ?

[daphnis]

Yes, public domain in Canada and the EU, but copyright in the US. Commentary by Ratz must be removed.

[madcapellan]

Like the Berlioz, I would wonder what the eligibility of the Mahler critical editions are for uploading now that the EU site is operational. I'm sure it could be a bit confusing since a number of volumes have been given reissues since the '60's, but they could also be a good addition to the site if they're now allowable.

[worov]

Hi, daphnis. Thank you for your answer.


Commentary by Ratz must be removed.


I don't how to do this. Some pages of the file contain both music and commentaries. How can I do this ? Can somebody help me ? Sorry, I'm not good in computing.

[daphnis]

I think they're all fair game excepting the editorial prose.

Worov, dump out the images with commentary by Ratz and remove in an image editor (Gimp, Photoshop, etc.).
I also removed your link. Let's not give open access to this until it hits the site.

[madcapellan]

There really shouldn't be a problem regarding commentary in the Mahler scores. He often put detailed messages himself into the scores to explain what he wanted, but these would be fine. Other than that, just don't upload the first few pages with the critical commentary, only the score itself. There shouldn't be anything you'd have to edit out of the score.

I'm pretty sure most of the "revierdete" or "verbesserte ausgaben" would be fine, but there have also been instances of reengravings, like with Symphony No. 5, that have only been out for the past 10 years or so. I assume these new engravings wouldn't be eligible, so I wouldn't mind some clarification before uploading anything. A template and/or a page detailing the edition like with the New Berlioz wouldn't be bad either, but I have no idea how much work this entails.

[daphnis]

Other than that, just don't upload the first few pages with the critical commentary, only the score itself.

Correct

Any of the editions up through 1986 are fair game. This puts all of the symphonies in play. See http://www.gustav-mahler.org/ then Gesamtausgabe, then Verzeichnis for the index.

[madcapellan]

This Sämtliche Werke edition is certainly a mess, and as it stands right now is almost Bruckner bad. I'm not sure that list is entirely complete regarding all of the different versions, but it looks pretty close. I'll try not to be too cynical that almost every single volume published before 1986 has or will have a new edition printed of it. Anyone uploading would have to be extremely careful as to which version it is they have. I would also want to make sure that those 1998 corrections to Symphony No. 9 don't qualify it for another 25 years.

[worov]

Thank all of you for your answers.

Thank you, daphnis for the link.

I sent the file to a friend, he edited ther file and took out the commentaries.

I also have Symphonie 6. It looks like it's this edition :

Studienpartitur, verbesserte Ausgabe
Hrsg: Erwin Ratz / Karl Heinz Füssl / Reinhold Kubik
Verlag: C. F. Peters, KT 4526
Erscheinungsjahr: 1998
ISMN: 979-0-50027-023-2
Vergriffen.

[madcapellan]

The information I'm seeing for the Sixth Symphony is that the original version was published in 1963, while this revised version (which still mentions Ratz as an editor and is not a new engraving) was published in 1998. Yet another new version (presumably a new engraving) was published last year according to the site, and is the only one currently available. I don't know enough about Canadian and EU copyright to say whether a revised version of the same engraving counts for another 25 year term, but my first thought would be that it wouldn't be eligible for upload. Only the actual 1963 edition would be. Hopefully someone can clarify this who knows better.

As such, it might not be a bad idea to get a Mahler edition page up. I would be happy to help fill out some of the information, but I'm pretty sure that I'm unable to create the page or the template necessary. Most of the information appears to be right there on the Mahler website, so it shouldn't be too much work to get it up. This way we'd know which volumes can be uploaded and which will have to wait for a while.

Also, your submission of Symphony No. 9 needs to be looked at again. It's showing up as the exact same version (and file numbers and stats) as the earlier uploaded version, which is a scan of the Dover edition. Perhaps there was a problem somewhere with the upload, or the files are not properly linked to. Either way, there's no point in having two different links to the same files on the page.

[worov]

Also, your submission of Symphony No. 9 needs to be looked at again. It's showing up as the exact same version (and file numbers and stats) as the earlier uploaded version, which is a scan of the Dover edition. Perhaps there was a problem somewhere with the upload, or the files are not properly linked to. Either way, there's no point in having two different links to the same files on the page.


It is strange indeed. Same file number. However the PDF file doesn't have the same page numbers.

For exemple, for the first movement, Dover file has 58 pages, and the Universal file has 32 pages (each page of the PDF contain two pages of the book - I'm not sure I'm very clear, but it's clear when you view the file).

Shall I try to upload it again ? Or should we mention this to an administrator before doing anything ?

[madcapellan]

I'm not sure the files were uploaded to the server, because I'm not seeing them listed anywhere. It looks like you'd have to upload again. Try to make sure that the file names are unique so that they don't match the earlier uploaded scores.

Although before you do so, I should mention that it might be beneficial to do some editing to those files first. A program like ScanTailor would split and compress those files pretty easily, while still retaining much of the quality. Both me and Daphnis have experience with that program, and could help with editing if you're unable to do so. I was possibly considering helping upload some of the Mahler scores myself, but if you already have the scans and could get the editing done, that would save some time. I mention that because the Symphony No. 8 file is a bit large for what is normally uploaded here, and I noticed a small part of the comments were included on the first page of the score, which probably shouldn't be posted. Editing would allow that page not to be included.

Unfortunately, I'm still unsure of how many volumes can actually be uploaded. Anything published before 1986 would be free in Germany and therefore the EU, but I don't know how much the revisions affect the eligibility. Hopefully someone can clarify this because the Mahler editions would be a nice addition to the site, even despite all the troubles they present.

[worov]

When I try to upload the files, I have this message.

4 files you are trying to submit has already been submitted before, and the old IMSLP catalogue number for the file is used. If this is not intentional, please go to corresponding image pages to find out which pages already link to the file. If there aren't any, please contact an admin here. The other 0 files have been submitted successfully.


What does this mean ?

[KGill]

It might mean that you're uploading files that have the same filename as ones already on the server. Have you tried changing your filenames to something different?

[madcapellan]

I'm not sure what you think you're uploading, but this is the Dover scan yet again. This scan most certainly is not from the critical edition. Either you're uploading the wrong files, or you're trying to upload the same files you downloaded from IMSLP earlier. That's the reason it said you were uploading duplicates, because you were, and you'll notice the stats are the same. If the files on your computer look exactly like the ones you've uploaded to IMSLP, then there's no point in doing so, since the files are already on the server.