Copyright status, Telemann concerto

[Irishmaestro]

Just wondering about the copyright status of a Telemann work, Violin Concerto in A Major, TWV 51:A4 'Die Relinge'. It appears to have been first recorded in 1999 under Philip Pickett, and published in a critical edition in 2001. Does making a new edition from the source (a set of parts in Rheda) violate any potential copyright claim the editor of its first publication might have?

[Carolus]

The very important court decision over Vivaldi's opera Motezuma placed the burden of proof upon the party attempting to make an editio princeps claim. Because things were copied out and circulated - often widely - back in Telemann's day, the odds are very high that the work was "published" under the legal definition of the term long ago. Basically, we're taking the position that the editors of the 2001 edition have to prove the piece was not published - that it existed only in the form of the composer's own manuscript and no copies were made or distributed by the composer or anyone else until 2001. In Canada, there is no problem because nothing of any author who died before 1949 is subject to copyright except as an adaptation (for the new edition). In the USA, the situation is more clouded, but the Motezuma decision is still important because it defines "publication" in a similar way that the US law itself does.

[Irishmaestro]

Well, the only known source is a set of parts - very importantly, not autograph. In fact, they contain so many errors that they can't possibly be. Does that settle the matter then?

[tim.willis1685]

If it is allowed, please upload this piece! I look forward to it.

[Carolus]

@Irishmeastro. Yes, I would say it really does.

[Irishmaestro]

Right now, I'm focusing on getting some Graupner scores finished - Two cantatas and Violin Concerto.

I'm pottering away at the Telemann as I have time - I have the whole of the first movement (by far the longest) typeset, though. I've had to make quite a few corrections to the source, though. One part has several missing bars, and another actually has several bars too many, for instance. I'm not entirely convinced that it is by Telemann, though.

[Richety]

Did this mange to get completed at all? Just a scan of the manuscripts would be quite handy. It doesn't seem to be published at all.

[Carolus]

The operational thing here is the legal definition of the term "publication". The existence of copies made by someone other than the composer or one of his known copyists is substative evidence that publication took place in the composer's era or shortly thereafter.

[Irishmaestro]

Did this mange to get completed at all? Just a scan of the manuscripts would be quite handy. It doesn't seem to be published at all.

Hi Richety, sorry I'm only getting around to replying now. I did typeset the whole concerto, but I shelved it for a while because some other projects took precedence!

The parts in Rheda are chock-full of errors, and I seriously doubt they were copied directly from the original Telemann manuscript. Perhaps they were copied from another set of parts? There were so many errors, in fact, that it took me quite a while to sort them out. I think that, in itself, is a good argument against Editio Princeps applying here!

[Richety]

Did this mange to get completed at all? Just a scan of the manuscripts would be quite handy. It doesn't seem to be published at all.

Hi Richety, sorry I'm only getting around to replying now. I did typeset the whole concerto, but I shelved it for a while because some other projects took precedence!

The parts in Rheda are chock-full of errors, and I seriously doubt they were copied directly from the original Telemann manuscript. Perhaps they were copied from another set of parts? There were so many errors, in fact, that it took me quite a while to sort them out. I think that, in itself, is a good argument against Editio Princeps applying here!

Do let me know if you need any help. Im quite good at deciphering some of these old scores. People who have performed it also think it's not Telemann, though still an interesting work.

[EggBee]

Hi all!
I just received the score and parts for the concerto by Telemann (?) from "Snakewood Editions". I plan to schedule performances with my ensemble throughout the year. After playing through the violin solo today I have to say that I am also doubtful that this piece is authentic. The solo reaches into 8th position and has some awkward string crossings and shifts which wouldn't be typical baroque. I would very much LOVE to see a facsimile of the manuscript! If it is out there, any help would be greatly appreciated! By the way...Telemann or not...this is one really FUN piece!

[Richety]

Oh that's brilliant, I'll look up that edition. My group wants to play this sometime.

8th position is unusual but does occur in a few Vivaldi concerti. However, I'd agree that it's exceptional in Telemann. And also Telemann normally writes very idiomatic solo violin parts. They are sometimes flashy and technical but they normally sit well under the hand.

[EggBee]

Here's the link I found recently...

https://snakewoodeditions.com/index.php ... ts-in-pdf/

[Irishmaestro]

I finished the typeset back in 2015, and while I haven't proofread it yet or written a commentary, I've uploaded the initial typeset for now. The commentary will take some time to compile due to the number of errors in the source.

I still haven't resolved the discrepancies in articulation, and even notes, present in the source. Hopefully, I'll be able to get around to that soon. I have a scan of the original manuscript, but you can see the first page of the solo part on RISM. https://muscat.rism.info/system/digital ... _00003.jpg

[Eric]

People’s interest does seem to taper off sometimes though when attribution moves elsewhere- eg: “Mozart’s 12th mass” was once quite popular and themes from it the source of many variations sets but now we know it’s not by Mozart, no one’s heard of it under any name.

Re RISM I recommend using the permalinks they provide instead! eg here https://opac.rism.info/metaopac/search? ... anguage=en.