IMSLP Forums

C.F. Peters

Editor- Erich Doflein

Copyright- 1940 by Henry Litolff's Verlag

Copyright assigned 1952 to C.F.Peters

Can I submit this book or still not PD?

Zeyar Shwe

Will be classified as an urtext edition, public domain in Canada and the EU, but not the US. Remove any prose by Erich Doflein as that would still be protected since he died in 1977.

Thanks. Will it be Urtext because Erich Doflein added fingering ? I do not want to submit it unless it is OK because the tone of some administrators to the inexperienced people like us is far from pleasant if we upload files that are not in PD. Some administrators seem forget that we are giving our time and efforts in adding files to IMSLP and we have not the knowledge like the administrators.

Best regards,

zeyar shwe

It would be considered Urtext because it was published previously and this "new" edition doesn't contain sufficient enough revisions or additions to meet any threshold of originality. Go ahead and submit your piece. You're doing due diligence by asking what is legal and what isn't. Most of us get irritated by repeat offenders who fail to even do the basic amount of homework before the submit pieces which are very clearly protected. In the case of this piece, it isn't crystal clear, so we usually don't get snippy about those things.

Sorry Daphnis, Carolus already replied on his talk page about this case, and the piece he uploaded is not Urtext or a critical edition and doesn't meet the threshold of originality because the fingerings were added by Doflein himself on the score. So this had to be deleted, unless he can remove the fingerings and Doflein's name from the edition.

I responded on Zeyar's page. We may need to talk about this internally. I am fairly certain we decided some time ago--fairly uniformly--that fingerings themselves were not enough to establish threshold of originality.

Dear Daphnis,

I am not cross with you at all. In this case I am not cross with Carolus either because he explained the reasons why he needed to delete in a civil way.

To put the record straight, you have advised me to remove Doflein's name and all his prose from my submission. Submitting the Preface in a separate file was my own initiative and if there is a blame it rests with me.

I also agree with you that adding fingering to someone's composition is not a major contribution ( even an amateur pianist like me can add fingering ) and I want to know whether there is a copyright law that says that if fingering has been added , it cannot be Urtext?

Thank you once again,

Zeyar Shwe

Actually, this another case of a publisher pulling a Henle-style trick. The edition Zeyar added would not fall under the 'scientific edition' standard because the editor added fingerings, slurs, etc. The thing to keep in mind is that the German Section 70 does not use the term 'urtext' by the German equivalent of 'scientific edition'. "Urtext" is really a marketing term. Henle is the trickiest in this respect as their editions - despite the "Urtext" on the cover - contain numerous editorial fingerings, etc. etc. which render them ineligible for the 25-year term designated for critical editions in the EU. This is without even delving into the whole issue of continuo realizations. Prefaces are certainly not fair game even on actual critical editions, but Zeyar uploaded it separately. As for fingerings, this depends also on where the fingerings came from.

Dear Daphnis and Carolus,

I have posted the topic of added fingering in the copyright-related forum. You might like to comment.