What has happened to my submission?

[Tpgettys]

I have twice uploaded the Suite No.5 by Matthew Locke (complete score and parts, set by me) but they have not shown up after several days. The first time I was send a message saying that I had not done it correctly; that is why I submitted it again. If it was still not done correctly I simply need to know how to do it.

I have submitted quite a few works successfully, but perhaps the changed UI tripped me up. Just asking for a little help here.

[jossuk]

It's there on my computer...

[Tpgettys]

Thanks for looking and replying Jossuk! I didn't notice it on the Compositions page, as I think it belongs on the Collections page. At least that is where the first 3 suites I submitted are to be found, under Consort of 4 parts.

So I guess my question remains, in part. What did I do wrong so that they are not all to be found in the same place? I still have 2 more suites to do, so I should find out before submitting them as well.

[jossuk]

You are quite welcome. It's always good to hear back in turn.

I am not an IMSLP admin, and there may actually be a site policy regarding collections.
My thought, however, is that any collection should have been published as such, and should contain at least two distinct compositions, whether by one or more composers. Since you previously submitted the Locke suites as separate items on separate dates, those works should possibly have been entered originally as separate compositions by Locke rather than as members of a categorical collection (Consorts of 4 parts).

I would suggest pushing the site admins for clarification.

[Notenschreiber]

I put the Suite N.5 to the collection page like the others. Here we find the whole collection of all six, divided in two parts. That´s why we have a collection page. If this page would be overcrowded, workpages for the single works could be established. But this is not the case. The work page of No.5 can be deleted, i think.

[jossuk]

Should each of the Beethoven piano sonatas (for example) then be listed on the same page as the collections of Beethoven piano sonatas?

[Notenschreiber]

We have both cases. Sometimes the single works are listed together with collections, sometimes on single workpages. As far as i know, there is no strict rule for that. As said, if the collection page is very large, it is better to have workpages for the single works; or if they are important enough. Sometimes there is a remark on the top of the collection pages, that one should not add single works.

[jossuk]

Understood, but it would seem that Tpgettys' original concern for finding his downloaded file suggests the need for clarity regarding the collections category. See Steltz's question regarding this very example on today's user page.

[Carolus]

Collection pages are really not for new editions - and especially arrangements - of individual works. Invidual works should ideally have their own pages. This is not always expedient so we often allow such things to pile up until someone - usually me but also others - takes the time to set up pages for all the inidivual pages and move the arrangements and assorted individual editions to their new domiciles. There are of course cases where someone has produced a new edition or arrangement of an entire published collection, or muliple works from it. These items are eligible for collection pages. This applies to canonical collections - those issued in a composer's lifetime. Collections which consist of arrangements like those made by Ulrich of Haydn symphonies for piano duet are not to have other things added as a rule.

[Carolus]

Should each of the Beethoven piano sonatas (for example) then be listed on the same page as the collections of Beethoven piano sonatas?

Absolutely not. There would be little point in having collection pages if that were the case.

[jossuk]

Carolus, my question was submitted previously as a tongue-not-quite-in-cheek questioning of Notenschreiber's collection methodology, as I still prefer to not see items on a collection page unless they have been published _as_ a collection.

[Notenschreiber]

It seems, that my thougts about the existence of single works on collection pages does not coincide with that what Carolus likes to establish. But it describes more or less what you will find on our wiki at the moment. But Carolus give the guidelines and so the wiki will develop in this direction.

[azumbrunn]

This mirrors a thread here (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8756).

I have to say that I find it terrible if the rules are not clear. Either we have collections all on one page or else we have pages for individual works at least in those cases where individual scores are available.

And somebody ought to figure out how to organize a search for the score of a work out of a certain collection which may be on the collection page or on the work page depending on how the contributor felt that day.

[Carolus]

The ultimate objective is to have a page for every single work. Collection pages are simply pages for scans of printed volumes that contain more than one work. When there are arrangements and new editions of individual works found on a collection page they should be offloaded onto newly-created pages for individual works as these are added over time. Collection pages will ultimately be limited to editions, recordings and arrangements of either the entire collection, or of selections (e.g. more than one work) from the collection. When WIMA was added collection pages did not exist as a separate type of page here and many became what amounted to a 'holding tanks' for vast numbers of files.

Most items issued before Beethoven's lifetime were published in collections except for very large works like operas, oratorios, etc. That's why one encounters all the sets of "12 Sonatas" and "6 Concerti", etc. Paper and printing were expensive. Beethoven's lifetime coincided with improvements in the manufacture of paper and of the printing process itself, which made things like prints of things like single piano sonatas a possibility for the first time. Collections continue to be issued even today of course, and are still relatively economical way of handling things in terms of print costs.

Recordings offer an interesting contrast and parallel. The earliest recordings were limited to 2 minutes, ultimately increasing to around 5 minutes by the time electrical recordings came on the scene. The expansion continued into the LP and CD eras so that many LPs and CDs are really collections - containing multiple works - with only the largest works (operas, etc.) requiring more than one disk. With the advent of iTunes et al, it's now gone back to more of the single-work per unit model.