Proposed new genres

[Davydov]

After taking into account all the feedback from previous discussions (see elsewhere in this Forum), I've drastically altered the proposals for new genres, which can be seen here: http://imslp.org/wiki/User:P.davydov/Genre_Categories

There are now only 8 proposed broad categories, with optional 'sub-genres' that depend on the style of a work instead of its instrumentation. This will enable searches for operettas, symphonies, motets, etc. for the first time.

Opinions are welcome on the project's discussion page (see the above URL), as well as in this forum thread. The existing genre categories are going to be replaced very soon, so speak up now if you hold strong views on the subject

[Notenschreiber]

But I hope, that "Browse manual instrumentation lists" will not vanish!

[Davydov]

But I hope, that "Browse manual instrumentation lists" will not vanish!

Don't worry, that isn't part of the proposals. And if a way could be found to make these "manual" lists "automatic", they would be even more useful than they already are.

[steltz]

I particularly like the change from 'books' to 'writings', because many of the instrumental or teaching methods aren't books in a literary sense.

My only reservation is that solo flute (or violin, etc.) music has nowhere to go except perhaps chamber, but not all solo instrumental music would be there, because solo keyboard is elsewhere, so that part isn't really consistent.

Would it not be more logical to make 'solo instrumental' a genre with sub-genres of keyboard and non-keyboard?

[KGill]

Would exercises go under 'teaching methods', even if they weren't included with an actual method?

[steltz]

That one is tricky -- many of our etudes can never really be performed in a concert hall, but things like the Chopin Etudes can be, so they are concert pieces. On the other hand, etudes aren't writings either -- method books involve mostly music, but with some writing and explanation, even if far less than the actual music. Sometimes it's more the ordering and progression of the music that is the 'method'. But they all do involve at least a bit of text. I don't quite know what to suggest for etudes that are clearly study works not meant for performance, apart from the fact that they could go under a solo instrumental category, but even this is slightly misleading. On the other hand, the user can determine whether he wants to play an etude in public. Any other ideas?

[KGill]

Maybe there should be an 'Instructional' category (meaning a ninth one) that would include all methods, exercises, etc. 'Writings' could be limited to theoretical/critical/others.
But on the whole I like this system much better.

[Lyle Neff]

[...] There are now only 8 proposed broad categories, with optional 'sub-genres' that depend on the style of a work instead of its instrumentation. This will enable searches for operettas, symphonies, motets, etc. for the first time. [...]

I was not aware that there was one style for operettas, one style for symphonies, one style for motets, etc.

These are types of pieces, each group of which could encompass one or more styles among its representatives -- especially when viewed from one era to the next, or even from one composer to another in some cases.

"Concerto" is a specific type of work; it seems too limiting to include also other concerted works (which is why I am partial to "concerted works" as the category name).

I propose again that we dispense with the term "genre" (as well as "sub-genre"). If we're not going to have concurrent indexing systems acknowledging the performance forces/venues separately from the types of works, then the 8 main headings could simply be called "Main Categories," with the "sub-genres" likewise called "Sub-Categories."

[Melodia]

That one is tricky -- many of our etudes can never really be performed in a concert hall, but things like the Chopin Etudes can be, so they are concert pieces. On the other hand, etudes aren't writings either -- method books involve mostly music, but with some writing and explanation, even if far less than the actual music. Sometimes it's more the ordering and progression of the music that is the 'method'. But they all do involve at least a bit of text. I don't quite know what to suggest for etudes that are clearly study works not meant for performance, apart from the fact that they could go under a solo instrumental category, but even this is slightly misleading. On the other hand, the user can determine whether he wants to play an etude in public. Any other ideas?

Well there's usually a pretty clear line between what's an exercise, and what's an actual composition intended to help technique.

[steltz]

there's usually a pretty clear line between what's an exercise, and what's an actual composition intended to help technique.

Yes, but they both serve the same purpose, one is just longer. I think KGill was asking where they would go. Both are instructional. KGill goes on to suggest we have an instructional category, which I think would be very useful, then writings can be on their own.

I also agree with him that this system is much better!!!

[Davydov]

Thanks to everyone for their responses so far. The option of adding another genre for instructional exercises has been mentioned, but we also have the option of using this as a sub-genre instead (e.g. under "Keyboard"). What does everyone think?

I understand Lyle's preference for the use of the term "Categories" over "Genres", but after weighing the arguments I think we have to stick with it because: (1) It's easily understood that these are to replace our current system of "Genres"; (2) the term "Categories" has a specific meaning elsewhere on the Wiki; (3) there seems to be insufficient support among IMSLP users to justify the change.

However, the term "Concertante" might be more appropriate for the genre currently called "Concertos", which is intended to include shorter pieces for solo instrument and orchestra, as well as fully-fledged concertos.

I'll await more comments before altering the project page...

[steltz]

Where do unaccompanied non-keyboard pieces go? Specifically the ones that can be used in concerts (if instructional sub-category can take care of exercises and instructional etudes).

For example, solo flute.

I prefer Concertante or Concertante Works for the current Concerto category -- it resolves issues of where to put pieces like Kol Nidrei.

[Davydov]

Where do unaccompanied non-keyboard pieces go? Specifically the ones that can be used in concerts (if instructional sub-category can take care of exercises and instructional etudes). For example, solo flute.

They would come under the heading of "Chamber" works (as is generally the case in Grove, and comparable work lists).

[steltz]

I like the idea of having an instructional section, but there won't be consistency if keyboard instructional goes under keyboard, as it's the only instrument group with its own genre (though understandable because it's a large grouping. The non-keyboard instructional can't very well go under chamber, can it?

[Davydov]

The non-keyboard instructional can't very well go under chamber, can it?

Absolutely. The instructional sub-genre can exist under both chamber and keyboard genres, making it easier to distinguish the keyboard instructional works from those for other instruments.