IMSLP Forums

I'm timpani/percussion principal in some local orchestras, and it has recently been occurring to me that the world needs a wiki where people like us can share practical information about the repertoire. Each time the music director announces a new program, my first questions are:
- What percussion instruments are needed (often I know this, after 40 years of playing)?
- What do we have and what to we need to go find?
- How many players are needed, given the skill levels I have available?
Next:
- Any specific issues of performance practice around this particular work?
- How are we going to transport 4 timpani to the church hall we have to use for next week's rehearsal?

Well, maybe a wiki wouldn't help with the last. And some of this information is published in books, but they often represent professional levels of skill and, in any case, one person's opinion.

I was imagining:
- one page per instrument or instrument family. I know people will want to discuss their favorite drums or mallets, but I also would find it useful to get information on some of the less common instruments, and make sure everyone knows what a Tambourin is (Arlesienne, Roi David).
- one page per work with:
-- instrumentation
-- personnel requirements in some detail (e.g. 4 players nominally, 3 if you attach cymbal to bass drum, 2 if someone is very good at a rapid switch, possible for timpanist to play tamtam)
-- stage layout tips
-- specific oddities and suggested techniques per work. For example, from my most recent concert:
--- Mahler 9 doesn't actaully need 2 timpanists. The cymbal player can walk around and play II in a couple of places in the 1st movement
--- Strauss Four Last Songs has celesta playing ten quiet chords; ask the conductor if 3 rubber mallets on a glockenspiel is OK if the celesta is out of budget

Thoughts? Is that something that IMDBP could encompass? Or should I look at setting it up myself? Or is it already done?

Hi David,

That sounds like a brilliant idea, and a wiki is just as good as anything for collecting this sort of information, and I quite agree the percussion is usually the most diverse and tricky for making these sorts of determinations.

* Yes, one page for instrument/family, and use the associated Talk: pages for sorting out discussions about favourite models etc.
For relatively unusual percussion, links to the most frequently performed works that need them, e.g. wind machine => Alpine Symphony, Daphnis et Chloë, etc.
antique cymbals => Prélude l’après-midi, Berlioz Roméo et Juliette, etc.

perhaps ditto the more unusual winds, e.g.
basset horns => Mozart Requiem, Strauss Elektra & Rosenkavalier, etc.

I'll defer to the wisdom of Feldmahler as to whether this would be better hosted over at IMDBP rather than IMSLP.

* For individual works, a "percussion" template for the IMDBP pages could be a handy way of summarising the personnel/layout/instrumentation issues.

Again for example, I edited a symphony last year which had numerous issues like the ones you raised, e.g. celesta used for just 4 bars in the whole 40 minutes, playing 8 x 3-note chords! Can the timpanist switch to gong in 1 bar of Adagio? Numerous other "quick switch" issues. Would the harpist be prepared to play triangle at the end of the second movement where it appears you need 8 or 9 separate players? (Timp., B.D. + Cymb., S.D., Tamb., Tri., Bells, Xyl. and Glock.!)

Regards, Philip

Thanks for the positive feedback. I wouldn't rush into it; I think it's important to think deeply about the style guide first. A good organization leads to easy information retrieval for the customers, and we should fend off trolling.

Harpists playing triangles - oh yes. I suppose the mystery is why so many composers can't write for harp and triangle at the same time!

Did either of you ever create or find this resource? I also feel it should exist, and indeed was searching for it when I stumbled upon your exchange. It seems silly that we all spend so much redundant time analyzing these works for player and equipment requirements, and it seems somewhat tragic that there's no central resource for "lore", where people can bicker about playing "corrected" timpani pitches, whether to add particular notes, etc.

If you know of such a thing, please point the way. If not . . . well, there must be some service out there that lets people create custom public Wikis so they can put targeted ads on them.

Thanks,
Woody Zenfell III

I still think it would be a valuable resource, but I havn't had the time or, more accurately, the creative energy (it would require a certain amount of effort to set up and police if it were to stay well-structured).

I'm sure there are public sites where you can make a wiki, but I still think IMSLP would be a goos host if someone knew how to make it happen.

Played the Planets last weekend. 2 timp and 2 percussion, with one single-handed bass-drum roll and a few suspended cymbals that should have been crash (the published parts seem to imply you should have two untuned percussion and one dedicated mallet player).

There doesn't seem to be that many people with the necessary percussion experience on IMSLP, so it might be more advisable for someone to take it in hand as a personal project and gradually find ways to link it into the particular works pages. Even a page which is no more sophisticated than a list of links to works with corresponding advice on percussion staff and instrument tips would be a start.

David, do you have a user page setup on IMSLP? You can create any page you want underneath your userpage using the slash / (e.g. imslp.org/wiki/User:xyz/New_page) so you can trial the way you want the percussion info to be displayed.

Regards, PML

Just wanted to voice my support for this and other similar projects. There is no reason why IMSLP should only be a music library. Any musician-related discussion or information is much welcome. Feel free to put the information on a new wikipage and the admins will sort out how it fits into everything else. Indeed, a "musician portal" may be a good idea if we have a sense of what kinds of information musicians would like to share. I'd encourage an admin with ideas for the portal to try it.

I wonder whether this resource could also contain custom-made "percussion scores" - ie a re-typesetting of individual parts onto one big part, that can be used by anybody in the percussion section, to assist performance, especially with less than the specified number of players.

What is the position on non-copyright works being re-typeset in this way?

Stephen, Cambridge, England.

@stephen of Cambridge

In relation to typsetting percussion parts for ease of use, why not? Afterall, the only important thing is that the sounds produced is as close to what the composer painted, surely? The audience doesn't give a tincker's cuss and the conduct would probably be no more the wiser. Out of copyright percussion is an interesting concept, considering its paucity of use before Berlioz' time. Most wonderful percussion writting seems to have happened at the turn of the century and on so not all the music is out of copyright. Great topic point Stephen, fascinating.