IMSLP Forums

(Copied from another forum but obviously more relevant here )

We have a floating page, Ries Danse polonaise, which I think may be an edition - perhaps unauthorized by the composer - of his Masuero / Mazurka Opus 79 for the same instrumentation. I have a several pieces of evidence to this effect, but they're all circumstantial (admittedly, I'm fairly convinced by them- ... still... I've been misled by such things).

To clinch it I'd like someone who has a first or at least early edition of the work, if anyone does, in its authorized form (not the Erard publication we have on site, but the Mitchell/Breitkopf publication (London/Leipzig) of 1818 that the Ries Gesellschaft mentions, e.g.- and compare the one we have to the "actual work". The Catalogue thematique has the incipit, which is the same, but it's a pretty generic incipit. Worldcat mentions the name of the dedicatee of the Mitchell edition, and it's just about the same as the dedicatee of the Erard edition- like I said, all circumstantial evidence. Would like stronger, for once, before moving the page to Masuero, Op.79 (Ries, Ferdinand)

Thanks much! (It's not the publication history or whether the Erard edition was authorized that I'm interested in , just whether the Erard edition is essentially the same piece. Published the same year 1818 (Bibliographie de la France evidence for Erard, Ries-Gesellschaft for the as-yet-unseen first edition), I should add. Like I said, quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. It reminds me of all those works published in the US and scanned by the Library of Congress that were indeed just slightly edited, even fingered, piano works bought back in Europe, in the 19th century and republished under the then very weak USA copyright law - some of them similarly with somewhat changed names, no or slightly different opus numbers or etc., etc. etc. ...)


Eric

I agree with your opinion that the two works are indeed the same. However, I am curious about the linguistic journey from "masuero" to "mazurka; any ideas...?

I think they're probably the same, but I was hoping to find someone who had the published 1818 score (or a reprinting or new edition, but I don't think it ever was except in 1818, unless the Ries-Gesellschaft is doing some sort of modern Ries edition and has gotten to it, or something) and could give me a 99.999% (save epistemological questions... oh, hush, Eric.)

As to Masuero, at a wild guess based on some acquaintance- mostly via IMSLP and Google Books- with just how freewheeling these things could be in the early 19th century (a relative thing, of course...) -- I am guessing that Polish dance, and Mazurka, was something more exotic and unusual to a British (and even to a nearer-by German-speaking Leipzig) audience than now post-Chopin, and insistance on exact pronunciation with something unfamiliar in the first place (... I'm not sure I know how to pronounce the Polish words Mazurzy (people), mazur, mazurek (apparently not the same things, mazur and mazurek?) correctly in Polish anyway...) - anyhow I was guessing, uncertainly,

Masuero -- Masu[e]r[o] -- Masur. (Not as in conductor's surname...)

Google search seems to suggest that Masuero is a surname - or - the last name of a piece by Ries. That seems to be the limit of the musical possibilities for the word I found offhand...

(Now archive.org, otoh, seems to think that this "Danse polonaise" is by Franz Ries, Ferdinand's nephew. This I do not get. It's by "Ferd. Ries". The cover says "F. Ries", yes, but what was that about judging a book by its cover?... Gyah.)