Mahler's 6th symphony

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:11 am

Womping willow?
:p
(wHomping?)

kongming819 · Post by **kongming819** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:28 am

HP allusion? Hahah I don't read HP though...maybe I should...when I have time

That whomping willow would sure whack the heck out of that hammer (a bit of alliteration for you there

)

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:38 am

Hehe.

I've read the first few, they were good, but they never really interested me that much. Best thing about them probably is they are written well (in that they are very easy to read and never clumsy).

The whole thing is just LotR for kids.

Dementors/Black Riders...

Vivaldi · Post by **Vivaldi** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:13 am

Hmm, I thought Alma identified the 3 hammer blows as 3 events occuring later in Mahler's life: The death of his daughter, discovery of his heart condition and the resignation from the Vienna Opera (and subsequently him leaving Vienna).

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:54 am

I don't believe much of what Alma says...

From what I've heard Mahler respectively took out the third blow because of the three things that happened, he did not add it or those reasons.

Vivaldi · Post by **Vivaldi** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:11 am

I also remembered reading in a guide to classical music (can't remember the title) that Mahler supposedly erased the 3rd blow as it to ward off his own death. Superstition?

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:25 am

Very much so superstition.

kongming819 · Post by **kongming819** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:40 pm

LOTR definitely pwns HP

So, apparently on the dress rehearsal of the premiere, Mahler was so worked up over the third hammer blow that when he was backstage, he couldn't stop walking up and down and sobbing violently. He was so shaken by it that for the premiere, he conducted badly. That's according to Alma I think.

At first sight, it may seem that he is worried about the hammer...but come to think of it, it may be more like he is worried about the lack thereof. It is said that he just used a bass drum for the premiere and the sound didn't carry like he wanted to. Before the premiere, he custom ordered a very large bass drum but the problem was that the sound was puny, despite the fact that Mahler himself whacked at it with all his strength, much to the amusement of the musicians. (Mahler was strong, he went swimming in cold waters and he went hiking on the Alps).

Anyway, supposedly he removed the 3rd hammer blow before soon after the premiere because he wanted to ward off his own death (sorry Mahler, but I've got news: everyone's gotta die someday). As the current consensus is in this forum, superstition.

The three hammer blows are, in this order, the resignation from the Vienna Opera due to rampant anti-Semitism, the death of his daughter, and the news of his own heart condition (just as what Vivaldi said but just in the right order).

Concerning the middle movements, he originally conceived Scherzo-Andante. For the premiere, he conducted Andante-Scherzo. Mengelberg followed that order until Alma telegrammed him a message saying "First Scherzo, then Andante" and thusly he changed to that order. It has been said that before Mahler died, he asked for the original order. That's probably just a rumor and I have yet to see the factual evidence. According to Michael Steinberg, S-A is better because S right after the 1st movement provides a more effective mockery. According to Zander, the combination of the two provides a sort of a "monolithic horror," and that the Andante works better because E-flat leads right into the C minor of the finale.

That's the most I've ever typed in one sitting, I think...

ZacPB189 · Post by **ZacPB189** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:44 pm

Personally, I like the scherzo BEFORE the Andante.

Here's why:

We have our big funeral march that leads to scherzo that starts big, but gradually leads to a more reserved finish. That way, one can easily slide into the Andante/choral. Followed by the finale, putting the movements in that order actually gives you the idea of how Mahler actually felt writing it with tension building and builing, leading to great hammer blows that eventually "kill his daughter", where the tension turns to sorrow. I don't give a CRAP how much contrast there "should" be... With the best composers (especially Mahler) one needs to feel his pain, love for Alma, rage at the critics, etc...

kongming819 · Post by **kongming819** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:03 pm

Ah good point, I agree.