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steltz wrote:[...] Now if we can just find a couple of Valkyries.

Likewise reduced in size?

I dont even know if a combination this small would even be considered an orchestra per se, but I challenge myself to see what I can get out of:

-- flute
-- oboe
-- clarinet
-- horn
-- piano
-- double bass

Sometimes I'll interchange the piano for a string quartet, but that's pushing it.

I prefer to use either a solo instrument or trio/quartet of some kind rather than an orchestra, and therefore, when the need arises to write something for orchestra, it's for a very specific combination (usually one that could barely be termed an 'orchestra'). For instance, I'm writing a commissioned piece at the moment that is for:
1 flute
2 clarinets (B flat)
1 trumpet (B flat)
1 tuba
strings

Pathetic. The only other decent/good orchestral piece I ever pulled together was for:
1 piccolo
2 flutes
2 oboes
1 english horn
2 clarinets (don't remember the key)
1 bass clarinet (B flat)
2 bassoons
1 contrabassoon
3 trumpets (C)
timpani
xylophone
bass drum/triangle/cymbals
strings

I think, though, that my ideal orchestra (if I had to choose) would be the following:
1 piccolo
1 flute
2 oboes (or maybe just one)
1 piccolo clarinet
1 clarinet (A)
1 bassoon
1 contrabassoon
3 horns (F or possibly B flat basso)
2 trumpets (C)
2 trombones (probably both tenor)
1 tuba
timpani, xylophone, and several unpitched (the number should be out of proportion to the rest of the orchestra), maybe ondes martinot and/or theremin, flexatone (maybe in place of the xylophone)
small to medium strings
I mean, do you really need more than that? 15-16 winds, xylophone, optional electric instruments, and divisible strings can all carry out pretty much any kind of necessary stuff. To be honest, I know that I listen to a lot of Varese and Shostakovich, who both wrote for some of the largest combinations ever, but I am firmly an instrumental semi-minimalist in practice. (I mean, after all, there's quite a bit you can do with even a single piano, not to mention a string quartet!) And then there's also the issue of practicality, which is not 20 horns in any circumstances. The electric instruments are admittedly pushing it quite a bit, but rest assured that I've never actually written for any of them. 99% of my pieces are for piano or other tiny standard-ish chamber combination.

And thank you, Steltz, for giving us that advice! As a high school student myself, I can attest to the value of standards (or even small ones- my school orchestra last year had no horns but a good saxophone in place of the english horn, 2 good bassoons (and one bad one), and 4 trombones; this next year, we might have one horn and possibly the saxophone, but no bassoons; and the year after, it's looking pretty certain we'll have no oboes- a particular disappointment since the one we have now is literally better than many professionals I've heard). Another good reason to just write for a few people. I really like the idea of your 5-piece opera orchestra!

You're welcome!! But I also think that if you carry on with music in college, you will get the chance to write for a good quality standard orchestra, so be patient. All the small stuff you do now helps you prepare for that, not that small pieces are "lesser" in any way. Most composers got to grips with the different families of the orchestra by writing chamber music -- string quartet, brass ensembles, woodwind ensembles.

And in any case, throughout history, composers have written for available forces -- Bach, Mozart, Stravinsky. And now with the global meltdown . . . . . we are likely to think small again.

I must say I've never actually written anything, but I would personally go with the classic 'full orchestra' with additions (*s) as needed:

1 Piccolo*
2 Flutes
2 Oboes
2 Clarinets
2 Bassoons
1 Contrabassoon*
2-4 Horns
2 Trumpets
3 Trombones*
3 Timpani
Triangle, Cymbals, BD, Snare, etc.*
Organ*
Strings

wurlitzer153 wrote:I must say I've never actually written anything, but I would personally go with the classic 'full orchestra' with additions (*s) as needed:

1 Piccolo*
2 Flutes
2 Oboes
2 Clarinets
2 Bassoons
1 Contrabassoon*
2-4 Horns
2 Trumpets
3 Trombones*
3 Timpani
Triangle, Cymbals, BD, Snare, etc.*
Organ*
Strings

So you prefer a more "late classical/early romantic" sized ensemble. Nothing wrong with that, although you could probably add an english horn and a bass/contrabass clarinet and possibly a 3rd Trumpet to balance the winds out a little more (not that I'm very balanced myself ) and add a little more texture.

Contrabass Clarinet in an otherwise notmal romantic sized orchestra? What are you smoking? o.O

Maybe you should add a couple saxophones (or even a full quartet) instead. They make a quite nice addition (look at Villa-Lobos, not to mention R. Strauss's Sinfonia Domestica and Milhaud's Creation du Monde, among others); I'd consider replacing things (such as a clarinet) with an alto or something.

Contrabass clarinet is definitely never used in orchestral works. It is pretty much the domain of clarinet choirs and wind bands. There is no real need for that register when the contrabassoon is available, and all good professional and most university orchestras would have access to one of those, unlike the contrabass clarinet.

Saxophone has quite a good orchestral history, starting with Bizet, L'Arlesienne, already in the 19th century. Massenet's Werther uses one, and those are both before the 20th century stuff like Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, Bolero, etc. etc.

It wouldn't hurt to add a heckelphone.

If I composed for orchestra (I hope I will someday), my instrumentation would be similar to this:

(maybe piccolo)
2 flutes
2 oboes
(maybe English horn)
2 clarinets
(maybe bass clarinet)
2 bassoons
(maybe contrabassoon)
4 french horns
2 trumpets
2 trombones
(maybe bass trombone)
1 tuba
timpani
cymbals
(maybe snare drum and triangle)
strings


Yeah I know, I'm a traditionalist.

I'm a fan of the above too -- with the auxiliary winds -- though adding a harp and a couple more percussion to it. Still, I love such instruments as Eb clarinet, alto flute, and oboe d'amore...not to mention celesta and other things that I'd be open to whatever I felt like. In my small attempts I experiemented with various things, and found it best to let the music distate the instrumentation instead of the other way around.