Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:59 pm
He wrote four.
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just want to second all of the above.athensnogood wrote:I struggle, really struggle, to see why Schubert does not feature up there with Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.
In his songs he is unsurpassed, All of them, as brahms would have said. His last piano sonatas pick up where Beethoven left the genre and no one has since written anything that exquisite for the piano - chopin included. His string quintet is the supreme composition in chamber music (or all music) and then there are those other chamber masterpieces, the D minor and G major quartets and the piano trios. The two symphonies reach extreme depths of bitter-sweet emotion while showcasing as skillful an orcherstrator as any - oh yes, no one dares say it, "Schubert the great orcestrator".
His music moved composers such as Schumann, Brahms, Mendelsohn and Liszt in a way we hardly see anywhere else. There is a uniqute term, "schubertian", which applies to those who cherish the uniqueness of the emotional world of this music and there is no comparable term for any other composer. There are no "Beethovenians" or "Mozartians". Perhaps not because they are not as greatly admired but perhaps no other composer has reached the depths of emotion that Schubert has. Watch out how pianists like Brendel, Richter, Schiff look up to Schubert and single him out in a place amongst all composers, the first and the latter happily allowing themselves to be called "schubertians".
He died at the age of 31. Beethoven had, by then, written one symphony, the early quartetts and the "moonlight" would have been the pinnacle of his achievement for the piano. I dont remember who said it but it is apt: Schubert's early death is the worse catastrophy in the history of music. What he did in the very few years he composed is the ultimate achievement, though he never of course saw it as such.
And for those who are impressed by the wonder stories about Mozart, do look up what Schubert wrote in September 1827. Has any person, in any field, achieved so much, in such a short period of time?
Lyle Neff wrote:I was under the impression that Schubert wrote more than two symphonies.athensnogood wrote:[...] The two symphonies reach extreme depths of bitter-sweet emotion [...]
What the???He wrote four.
And if the Mozart effect is a farce?*if mozart effect = enhanced intelligence
then schubert effect = enhanced emotional intelligence
Then the Schubert effect only makes you THINK you are more emotionally switched on.And if the Mozart effect is a farce?*
*Which it is...
You’ve heard of the Mozart Effect, i.e., listening to Mozart increases one’s spatial IQ. BUT, have you heard of the …
LISZT EFFECT: Child speaks rapidly and extravagantly, but never really says anything important.
BRUCKNER EFFECT: Child speaks very slowly and repeats himself frequently. Gains reputation for profundity.
WAGNER EFFECT: Child becomes a megalomaniac. May eventually marry his sister.
MAHLER EFFECT: Child continually screams — at great length and volume — that he’s dying.
SCHOENBERG EFFECT: Child never repeats a word until he’s used all the other words in his vocabulary. Sometimes talks backwards. Eventually, people stop listening to him. Child blames them for their inability to understand him.
BABBITT EFFECT: Child gibbers nonsense all the time. Eventually, people stop listening to him. Child doesn’t care because all his playmates think he’s cool.
IVES EFFECT: the child develops a remarkable ability to carry on several separate conversations at once.
GLASS EFFECT: the child tends to repeat himself over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
STRAVINSKY EFFECT: the child is prone to savage, guttural and profane outbursts that often lead to fighting and pandemonium in the preschool.
BRAHMS EFFECT: the child is able to speak beautifully as long as his sentences contain a multiple of three words (3, 6, 9, 12, etc). However, his sentences containing 4 or 8 words are strangely uninspired.
Or: Brahms effect: Child plagiarizes so forcefully that onlookers marvel at his learning, scholarship, and of course, force.
Rossini Effect: Child will be lazy as hell but a lot of fun.
Schumann effect: Child speaks in poetry, then tries to drown himself.
Berlioz effect: Child takes opium and speaks REALLY LOUDLY.
Debussy effect: Child can’t talk, but loves pictures.
OR: DEBUSSY EFFECT: Child murmurs and mumbles in a sensuous vocabulary that seems to go nowhere, with occasional spouts of fireworks and jazz puppetry.
Faure effect: Child’s speech is too refined and elegant to be heard by coarse and insensitive persons.
Prokofiev Effect: Child speaks wildly and brilliantly, with a huge vocabulary. But… was he being serious?
ORFF EFFECT: The child delights in saying naughty things which no one else can understand.
Verdi effect: Child continually screams.
GRANGER EFFECT
Child will refuse to speak existing languages and will make up his own.
RZEWSKI EFFECT: the child tells the teacher that s/he is a victim of capitalist society in 36 different ways.
BACH EFFECT : Child weaves multiple sentences into an eloquent whole that takes ages to be properly understood.
OR:
BACH EFFECT: Child speaks in structurally perfect multiple voices, forwards, backwards, upside-down, augmented and diminished, solely for the glory of God.
SHOSTAKOVICH EFFECT : Child appears to work diligently, but on careful examination you find his work mostly consists of disguised remarks about how much he hates you.
And then, of course, the CAGE EFFECT — child says nothing for precisely 4 minutes, 33 seconds. Preferred by 9 out of 10 classroom teachers.
Sorry, I get Schumann and Schubert mixed up quite a bit. Schumann wrote four.aldona wrote:Lyle Neff wrote:I was under the impression that Schubert wrote more than two symphonies.athensnogood wrote:[...] The two symphonies reach extreme depths of bitter-sweet emotion [...]
What the???He wrote four.
Symphony No.1 (D.82)
Symphony No.2 (D.125)
Symphony No.3 (D.200)
Symphony No.4 (D.417)
Symphony No.5 (D.485)
Symphony No.6 (D.589)
Sketches for Symphony in D (D.615)
(Symphony in D? (D.708a?) )
Symphony No.8 "Unfinished" (D.759)
(Symphony "Gmunden-Gastein", D.849; Lost? or same as D.944?)
Symphony in D, D.936a (sketches)
Symphony No.9 (D.944)
Fragment of a Symphony in D (D.997)
Even allowing for all the unfinished bits & pieces, that's a lot more than four.
Or it's too early in the morning and I can't count.
aldona
It is a matter of personal preference, I'm sure, but listening to Brahms always makes me feel exhausted. He was an incredibly gifted composer, and I can recognise him for that, but he wants too much at the same time. No sense of moderation for the unaccustomed ear, whereas you can listen to Bach at about any level of theoretical insight, not just with years in formal training.But the LATEST 'B' - Brahms!!! why forget him? I truly think he is somewhat under-appreciated contrary his true place - ranked up on the same level as Bach in musical innovation and power of musical expression - so what if he was a perfectionist? I still think he is well, at least ONE of the greatest composers ever.... maybe also because of his ability to use constructively the heritage of his predecessors, weaved with a good measure of his own genius.