IMSLP Forums

So, I was wondering; to all of the composers/symphonists on this forum that write for orchestra on a regular basis: "What to you typically score for?" I'm just curious to see what other composers use in the orchestra.

I myself typically use:
2 Piccolo Flutes
3 Flutes
2 Oboes (in C)
2 Oboes (in F)(aka English Horns)
3 Bb Clarinets
1 Bb Bass Clarinet
1 Bb Contrabass Clarinet
2-4 Bassoons
1-2 Contrabassoons
20 Horns in F
3-4 Bb Trumpets (or 3-4 Trumpet parts with 5 players on a part)
3-4 Tenor Trombones (or 3 Trombone parts with 3 players on a part)
1 Contrabass Trombone
4 Euphoniums
1 Tuba
Timpani (1-2 Players)
Percussion (normally Crash Cymbals, Tam Tam, and Bass Drum)
1-10 Harps (usually only playing 1 part)
Organ
sometimes Piano
Violins I and II
Violas
Violoncellos I and II
Contrabasses
(yes, it's on the large side)

Wow. It's great that you can find an orchestra that big!
Piccolo (Flute 3)
2 Flutes
Alto Flute (Flute 4)
2 Oboes
English Horn
Oboe D'amore
Piccolo Clarinet in E-Flat
2 Clarinets (A or B)
Bass Clarinet
3 Bassoons
Contrabassoon
4 Horns in F
Natural Trumpet
2 Trumpets (B-Flat)
Bass Trumpet
2 Trombones
Bass Trombone
Tuba
Timpani
Percussion (Bass Drum, Cymbals, Triangle, Woodblock, Castanets, Xylophone, Glockenspiel)
2 Harps (Sometimes 1)
Piano/Organ (occasionally, usually with voice for Organ)
Violins 1+2
Violas (1+2 often)
Cellos (Occasionally 1+2)
Basses

Piccolo (doubling Flute 3)
2 Flutes
2 Oboes (doubling English Horn 2)
English Horn
E-Flat Clarinet
2 Clarinets in A
Bass Clarinet in B-Flat
Alto Saxophone
2 Bassoons
Contrabassoon

4 Horns in F
2 Trumpets in B-Flat
Bass Trumpet in B-Flat
2 Tenor Trombones
Bass Trombone
Tuba

4 Timpani
Snare Drum
Bass Drum
Tenor Drum
Triangle
Tambourine
Pair of Crash Cymbals
Regular Suspended Cymbal
Chinese Suspended Cymbal
Temple Blocks
Whip
Gong
Bells

Glockenspiel
Xylophone
Harp

8 1st Violins
8 2nd Violins
4 Violas
6 Cellos
2 Double Basses

perlnerd666 wrote:Wow. It's great that you can find an orchestra that big!

Actually, I'm lucky if I can find 2 horns and ANY bassoons (I'm still in High School...) but I write in hopes that someday.... ...eventually...probably long after I'm dead.... they will be performed.
I should probably add that I'm writing my 11th symphony at this perios of time. It'll be in three parts (part 1 = mvnt 1 & 2, part 2 = mvnt 3 & 4, and part three is the finale) and I'm going to see if the HS-Orchestra will play part 2 (movements 3 and 4) scored for:
3 Flutes
3 Bb Trumpets
Timpani
Bells
Chimes
Marimba
Vibes
Xylo
Snare
Cymbals
Tam Tam
Bass Drum
1 Harp
Piano
Strings

I can't think of a situation when anyone would need 20 French Horns///

1 Piccolo
3 Flutes
4 Oboes
1 Cor
4 Clarinets
1 Bass Clarinet
4 Bassoons
1 Contra
4-8 Corni
4 Trumpets
4 Trombones
1 Tuba
8 Kettle Drums (two timpanists)
Large Percussion Section - including xylophone
Two sets of harps
Piano

I write knowing if I ever get it performed I have to arrange it.

If I am actually writing for something in particular I use a more.. subtle approach. (?)
Large Strings

Yagan Kiely wrote:I can't think of a situation when anyone would need 20 French Horns///

I write knowing if I ever get it performed I have to arrange it.

If I am actually writing for something in particular I use a more.. subtle approach. (?)

"Suitible" is me writing pieces for Trumpet chiors with percussion...
20 Horns allows more flexibility in the Harmonies, and my favorite horn sound is when multiple horns play in unison... it's like adding 234 and 9875829......(as opposed to 2 and 2)

I don't mean subtle derogatively.

I agree that 4 horns isn't enough for that very large sound (although 7, 9 and 10 make do nicely with 4), but Mahlers horn section is quite powerful with 8 to 10 (Sym 2) Horns, I could stretch to 12, but I just don't see the point of that extra 8. To me the sound isn't that much different. Even Berlioz Requiem only (!) had 12. I also can't see how 20 horns help with harmonies. Even a cluster chord is filled up by 12.

and my favorite horn sound is when multiple horns play in unison.

Indeed, the beginning of Mahler three is stunning.

Yagan Kiely wrote:I don't mean subtle derogatively.

I agree that 4 horns isn't enough for that very large sound (although 7, 9 and 10 make do nicely with 4), but Mahlers horn section is quite powerful with 8 to 10 (Sym 2) Horns, I could stretch to 12, but I just don't see the point of that extra 8. To me the sound isn't that much different. Even Berlioz Requiem only (!) had 12. I also can't see how 20 horns help with harmonies. Even a cluster chord is filled up by 12.
Indeed, the beginning of Mahler three is stunning.

I also use Hns 18,17,19, and 20 (respectivly) for solos (18 is my favorite number ) and Hns. 1-8 and 9-16 usually alternate (for endurance reasons) except for the climax and/or end of the piece in which every single instument is playing rather loudly and all the brass have bells ups... but It's personal preferance. Same thing with the english horns (which I only use 2 of.... I prefer large brass sections)...(this is an understatement... )

ZacPB189 wrote: 1-10 Harps (usually only playing 1 part)

What's the definition of a quarter tone?
A harpist tuning unison strings
Try to imagine that times 10...
I can see the point of doubling with something like 5 on a part to make the part heard in loud passages...but 10...wow.

perlnerd666 wrote:

ZacPB189 wrote: 1-10 Harps (usually only playing 1 part)

What's the definition of a quarter tone?
A harpist tuning unison strings
Try to imagine that times 10...
I can see the point of doubling with something like 5 on a part to make the part heard in loud passages...but 10...wow.

1 to 10...and I occasionally use two parts, but it's rare-ish. I'm a sucker for physical impact.

HOLY CRAP!!!!
I would really really really like to see some of the scores you people write... oooohhh I am sooooo excited by anything for large orchestra!!!!
I'm very curious to know how you are able to orchestrate for such grand ensembles!!

Let alone 20 French Horns and 10 harps? Yowzas.

I'm curious as to how often these pieces are being played, if at all. After +-20 years in a professional orchestra, I can honestly say that things like bass trumpet might not even be owned by a professional trumpet player. (Although most professional orchestras will own a set of Wagner tubas)

Even when there was more money floating around than now, orchestra managements generally only did one or two huge things per year, and these were reserved for known names like Mahler. I've only played Turangalila once. Any of these large things require so many extra players that managements have to make sure they will recoup the costs, which is unlikely with a completely unknown composer. This is an unfortunate reality.

I take it some of you are students, so my advice is to learn to handle a standard (not small!) orchestra, especially if you want your works to actually be performed. If you have time to write "for the drawer", then by all means experiment, but don't expect to hear live performances of your works.

steltz wrote:I'm curious as to how often these pieces are being played, if at all. After +-20 years in a professional orchestra, I can honestly say that things like bass trumpet might not even be owned by a professional trumpet player. (Although most professional orchestras will own a set of Wagner tubas)

Even when there was more money floating around than now, orchestra managements generally only did one or two huge things per year, and these were reserved for known names like Mahler. I've only played Turangalila once. Any of these large things require so many extra players that managements have to make sure they will recoup the costs, which is unlikely with a completely unknown composer. This is an unfortunate reality.

I take it some of you are students, so my advice is to learn to handle a standard (not small!) orchestra, especially if you want your works to actually be performed. If you have time to write "for the drawer", then by all means experiment, but don't expect to hear live performances of your works.

I don't really expect to hear live performances....unless I use brute force to find more performers (which is illegal )...even my "chamber" pieces require at least 10 performers, and my lastest chamber work: 9 Trumpets, 3 Percussionists, and a Bassist (for the WSMA solo/ensemble festival for the trumpet section I play in... long story otherwise)

kongming819 wrote:HOLY CRAP!!!!
I would really really really like to see some of the scores you people write... oooohhh I am sooooo excited by anything for large orchestra!!!!
I'm very curious to know how you are able to orchestrate for such grand ensembles!!

Let alone 20 French Horns and 10 harps? Yowzas.

I'd gladly let you look at one! just PM me and we can alk a little more! XD

i go another way and reduce opera stuff to
flute
clarinet (+basscl.)
bassoon
2 horns
trombone
piano
percussion
string quintet

our pit in hamburg chamber opera doesn't allow more. most of the time it's fun...

Funny you should mention that -- I just got back from a rehearsal where we were rehearsing opera with 5 musicians!!! It was supposed to be Scala di Seta with small orchestra out of town, but the hall that's being built won't be ready in time, so they reduced it to a concert of arias for 3 singers for a smaller hall. Then they decided they wanted more than piano, so they added 4 other instruments -- violin, cello, clarinet, harp. Then the funders (who are in some way connected with the local Wagner Society) decided they wanted to have some Wagner arias as well, so . . . . . 'Weiche Wotan' and 'O du mein holde Abendstern' with a backing of 5!!!

We're going to call ourselves the Wagner-Lite orchestra.

And it actually sounds better than anyone expected it to. Now if we can just find a couple of Valkyries.