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I would like to ask what the classical music community thinks of Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima. Was he too extreme or is it pure innovative beauty?

The latter, definitely. There is no "too extreme" when something is that well-written.

To just put it out there, I appreciate the piece, not dislike it. I think it would be better fit as incidental music though.

Just remember he only applied the (apt) Hiroshima attacks after he wrote the piece, he didn't write the piece for it/them.

There is absolutely nothing beautiful about the piece, it is the most vile horrible piece out there, and that is why it is so good!

It was originally going to be called 8'37, as a hommage to John Cage. Too bad it took third prize in the competition it participated in.

I didn't say it was beautiful. I said well-written - Late Beethoven is often not beautiful, but it is sublime. This piece approaches the same standard. It is incredible.

Title Post mentioned beauty. Beauty is very much overrated in music. Imagine if every piece was perfectly beautiful, be wonderful for a little while then it would get dreadfully boring.

Yagan Kiely wrote:Title Post mentioned beauty. Beauty is very much overrated in music. Imagine if every piece was perfectly beautiful, be wonderful for a little while then it would get dreadfully boring.

So would all-ugliness.

That's why variety exists...and why we can still like Dufay even though we've "advanced" since then.

Early romantic philosophy was obsessed with beauty that's all.

Berlioz?? He was fantastic at making horrific-sounding things as imagery.

I said philosophy.

True enough. I withdraw the previous.

The Threnody is an amazing piece.
I must admit that listening to a recording of a (violin?) concerto, I think with Isaac Stern, is the only instance I can remember that a piece of music made me physically sick. Does that count as beautiful? no. Effective? Well, I think that defines it!

Would I listen to Penderecki again? No, probably not.

gardano wrote:The Threnody is an amazing piece.
I must admit that listening to a recording of a (violin?) concerto, I think with Isaac Stern, is the only instance I can remember that a piece of music made me physically sick.

I remember listening to Charles Ives's General William Booth Enter into Heaven and the dissonance in that piece causing me to feel very nauseous, so I know exactly what you were going through