IMSLP Forums

I am trying to track down the source of this Haydn minuet.
No information was given in the book I found it (not even the composer's first name so it could be by Joseph or Michael). I don't know if it is originally a keyboard piece or a duet. This is the entire piece as I have it.

M Haydn didn't go much for writing secular music, aside from his symphonies, or even for writing keyboard music. I'd start looking through FJ Haydn's piano sonatas, though the strict 2-part texture would be uncharacteristic of his keyboard minuets as is the lack of ornamentation, either written-out or via symbols. This task would be MUCH easier if IMSLP LISTED THE KEY OF EACH SONATA. Why the keys are listed for the Haydn symphonies and not his piano sonatas is beyond me.

Requests of this type should also list the FULL source of the quotation (book title, publisher, date, page etc.), in case the source itself may offer a clue to where to look. This music may have been extracted from a piece in another genre (for orchestra or chamber ensemble, for example) and simplified (texture reduced, transposed to C, etc.) for beginners.

--Sixtus

This may be a nice work for Kooplet, the music score search engine:

http://www.kooplet.com/

Given a sequence of notes Kooplet attempts to identify any sheet music file on the web (formats: vector PDF, Mus, Myr, Mu3, XML, MXL, Abc, Etf, Tef, Nwc, Enc, Tab, Mid, Kar, Mod, S3m, Cmf, Sty, Rhp, Etf, Gp5, Gp4, Gp3, Gtp) where such a sequence is present. Details are available here (in French language only):

http://www.kooplet.com/fr/kooplet.html

Unfortunately Kooplet is temporarily offline (for further development I guess), it may be worth trying Kooplet with this sequence when it's online again.

Max

Thanks for your help so far.

I have looked through most of the Haydn sonatas without luck. IMSLP does list the key for the sonatas in the navigation box that appears at the bottom of each individual sonata, just not on the main Haydn page (where I agree it would be more helpful)

There were two turns on the final notes of bars 7 and 15 which I left out, but have added in now. As for my original source, the book has absolutely no attribution whatsoever, hence my request here; but if you would like the details it is found in:

LCM Piano Handbook Grade 1, 2006, ed. Peter Wild (London: LCM Publications, 2005), p. 14

The LCM books have very poor attribution all round; with modern works, they usually list the source in the copyright notice but nothing for public domain items. Piano anthologies of this kind frequently present 2-part pieces as keyboard pieces as the monophonic parts are easier for beginning players, but with no attribution, it is hard to tell.

I may have to try Kooplet when it returns (I tried Musipedia yesterday with no luck)

sbeckmesser wrote:This task would be MUCH easier if IMSLP LISTED THE KEY OF EACH SONATA. Why the keys are listed for the Haydn symphonies and not his piano sonatas is beyond me.

Point taken, but you can easily find the keys listed in the worklist.
[EDIT: All of the titles have now been moved to reflect Hoboken number and key.]

sbeckmesser wrote:Why the keys are listed for the Haydn symphonies and not his piano sonatas is beyond me.

In terms of the symphonies I made this a “policy” when uploading the majority of the 107 works from the HCRL edition.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way!

@KGill
Thanks, but we were going to include Robbins-Landon numbering when we did the move...I'll redo the template and numberings...
[Update: Done! Needed to happen, anyway]

Sorry, I wasn't aware of that...I did that in accordance with the fact that the symphonies only list Hoboken number and key.

Managed to find the source thanks to Bryant and Chapman's Melodic index to Haydn’s instrumental music. It is from the Menuetto und Trio Hob. IX:24 for two violins and bass. First (I believe only) publication in Otto Erich Deutsch (ed.) Contredanse und Zingarese für Klavier zu zwei Händen (Wien:Strache 1930). Orchestral arrangement in Bernard Paumgartner (ed.) Zehn Menuette: für Orchester (Kassel: Bärenreiter 1950)

Deinonychus wrote:Managed to find the source thanks to Bryant and Chapman's Melodic index to Haydn’s instrumental music. It is from the Menuetto und Trio Hob. IX:24 for two violins and bass. First (I believe only) publication in Otto Erich Deutsch (ed.) Contredanse und Zingarese für Klavier zu zwei Händen (Wien:Strache 1930). Orchestral arrangement in Bernard Paumgartner (ed.) Zehn Menuette: für Orchester (Kassel: Bärenreiter 1950)

Just as I suspected, imported from another genre and simplified (from 3 lines to two) for beginner keyboard performance.

--Sixtus

^Our library recently acquired one of the latest volumes of the Haydn Werke, a volume of miscellaneous keyboard pieces (including the well-known variations in F minor). Many of the pieces are arrangements of movements from the symphonies, of opera numbers, etc.