IMSLP Forums

Hello,

I have some works that I would like to upload, but the copies I have don't have a copyright date included with the publisher information. All I can do, is make an educated guess as to when the works were published based on library records that have matching plate numbers, comparing the plate number sequence to other works with a known publication date, and comparing the typography to other works from the same publisher that have a known publication date.

My questions is if it would be worthwhile to upload these works, or would they just end up blocked? And if they wouldn't be blocked, how should I specify supporting evidence for the deduced year of publication?

First, find out who the publisher is, and when he died. And then find out when the editor (if any) died. And then anyone who may have done something to the work. What are the plate numbers/pieces, and I can look them up in a database to see when they were published.

With kind regards,

Why would you need to find out when the publisher died? Most of them didn't have any direct input in the actual engraving process...also, I think he knows what publisher it is, because he says the only thing missing is the date.
Before 1891, most non-American publishers (with a handful of exceptions) did not put dates on their scores at all, because having a copyright notice is only an issue for copyright status in the US, and the US did not have copyright relations with any other country before 1891. If you think it looks like it was engraved before 1891 (or thereabouts), then that should be enough to decide that it's OK in the US at least. For all other countries, date of death of the composer/editor/librettist/arranger is all that matters - you don't really need a date on the score to find that out
Also, anything published before 1989 without a proper notice (the word 'copyright' or the symbol, copyright owner, and year) fell into the PD there on publication. Depending on various other factors, it may have later been restored through filing of a NIE (Notice of Intent to Enforce), but it's easy to check for that online.
Finally, many publishers (Peters, Augener, etc.) quietly stopped printing notices on new copies of scores that had fallen out of copyright in the US; it's possible that this is the case here.

The pieces were actually published in Helsinki, between 1900-1910 as best I can tell, and were composed by Selim Palmgren.

Opus 2 - Tre Klaverstycken - Published by Axel E. Lindgren, Helsingfors. Plate numbers A.E.L. 838a, 838b, 838c.

Opus 3 - Suite for Piano - Published by R.E.Westerlund, Helsingfors-Helsinki, using the Lindgren plates. Plate numbers A.E.L. 839a, 839b, 839c, 839d, 839e.

Opus 4 - Tre Klaverstycken - Published by Axel E. Lindgren, Helsingfors. Plate numbers A.E.L. 840a, 840b, 840c. (May have been a reprint by Brietkopf & Härtel, as the German title "Drei Kalvierstücke" is on the top of the first page, and the boxed 'B&H' logo is stamped on the bottom right of the last page. But otherwise all attributions are for Lindgren.)

Opus 6 - Fantasie - Published by K. F. Wasenius, Helsingfors. Plate number K. F. W. 65. (And if I translated the German correctly, engraved and printed by Brietkopf & Härtel, Liepzig.)

Go ahead and upload - they're all PD in Canada and the US. Finland didn't even have copyright relations with the US before 1929, so anything published there before then should be fine.