Uploading Parts which are only availible for rental

[tilmaen]

Hi there,

I was wondering whether or not it is generally legal to upload music that is only available as rental music or has been copied from rented music, given the copyright on the typeset and the piece are long outdated.
I've created threads for the pieces in question in copyright request. the music is already scanned, and should be available on imslp in my opinion. especially the schubert 556 is rarely played and a very nice overture (especially for clarinetists). this piece is only available as rental music which says "copying prohibited" - however: do they have the right to prohibit copying of a piece, of which they do not own the copyright?

here are the threads:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5343
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5302

i'd be very thankful if somebody knows more about this legal stuff as i would happily upload the sheet music!

greetings
tilmaen

[Carolus]

There is no special copyright for items that are on rental - which legally is typically defined as a type of sale. As long as the work/arrangement/edition in question is public domain, it is perfectly legal to upload the work here regardless of the distribution method chosen by the publisher. The only potential problem one encounters with rental music is when a publisher makes the renter sign an agreement or contract which forbids you to copy or otherwise distribute the music being sent on rental. This could result in a suit over breach of contract, but not any suit over copyright violation.

[Notenschreiber]

A not important remark: What Carolus said is exactly the same what I tried to express in one of the two quoted links above.

[tilmaen]

@notenschreiber: i did notice. no offense - i have huge trust in carolus' knowledge of legal issues, which is why i reposted.

@ carolus: i will check with the person who rented it from breitkopf&härtel - i know for a fact she did not sign anything, it was a online transaction of money. i will ask her to send me any email/website/printout stuff she might have gained in the process. until then i will get the pdfs for the italian style overture ready.

greetz
tilmaen

[jemiller226]

@tilmaen: She may not have literally signed something, but I'm guessing there were terms she had to agree to by checking a box before she hit submit on her order. Just like 99.99% of other online buyers, I'm guessing she didn't read any of the terms she agreed to.

[kalliwoda]

Usually (i.e. here in Germany) there is a list of the complete number of parts included in the package, and performance venue(s) and date(s) are listed.
The entire back of this "rental agreement" is smallprint of the contract which you entered into by ordering the music, and first and foremost no other use than that stated on the agreement is legally permitted: not even repeating a movement as an encore, or copying by any means (including scanning) and of whatever small part of a page. You are supposed to return a signed copy of this rental agreement on receipt.

I doubt they will just forgo those rights.

That said, it is common knowledge that publishers often sold music in the past which is now only available for rental, and they would have no easy way to know if a scan on imslp was derived from a copy purchased years ago or from recently rented parts.

[tilmaen]

well, in that case all we have to do is to find out whether the piece has EVER been sold, or not. As it is plate number 13 (F.S.) it should have been around for a very looooong time (i'm guessing 1880's). If that's the case we could go for it.

greetz

[Carolus]

If the parts were engraved, they were almost certainly sold at one time.

[Notenschreiber]

One can find some ouvertures of Schubert in the Breitkopf Catalog of 1902 with prices.
See http://www.archive.org/stream/verzeichn ... 5/mode/2up