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Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:10 am**

I apologise most sincerely if this specific topic has been approached before, or if it is indeed located somewhere on this site. But if indeed it does exist, I missed it hence my posting of this topic.
I was hoping someone could tell me, if all of Johann Sebastian Bach's work is legally Public Domain in the United Kingdom?

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:39 am**

The only Bach works potentially protected in the UK (or elsewhere in the EU) would be those published for the first time less than 25 years ago (under the Editio Princeps rule). Editions of Bach works can be protected anywhere from 25 years from publication (critical editions) to life of the editor plus 70 years (interpretative editions).

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:51 pm**

Wrong.

In the UK unpublished materials are still in copyright until the end of 2039. Materials published for the first time less than 70 years ago are still in copyright.

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:14 pm**

Why is there a concrete date (2039)?

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:24 pm**

This is one of those cases where it's not exactly clear whether UK law applies or if the 93/98 EU directive supercedes it.

Here's the duration section pertaining to musical works of the 1995 revision of the UK law:

Duration of copyright in literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
5.—(1) For section 12 (duration of copyright in literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works) substitute—

"Duration of copyright in literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works.
12.—(1) The following provisions have effect with respect to the duration of copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work.

(2) Copyright expires at the end of the period of 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author dies, subject as follows.

(3) If the work is of unknown authorship, copyright expires—
(a) at the end of the period of 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was made, or
(b) if during that period the work is made available to the public, at the end of the period of 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which it is first so made available,
subject as follows.

(4) Subsection (2) applies if the identity of the author becomes known before the end of the period specified in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (3).

(5) For the purposes of subsection (3) making available to the public includes—
(a) in the case of a literary, dramatic or musical work—
(i) performance in public, or
(ii) being broadcast or included in a cable programme service;
(b) in the case of an artistic work—
(i) exhibition in public,
(ii) a film including the work being shown in public, or
(iii) being included in a broadcast or cable programme service;
but in determining generally for the purposes of that subsection whether a work has been made available to the public no account shall be taken of any unauthorised act.

(6) Where the country of origin of the work is not an EEA state and the author of the work is not a national of an EEA state, the duration of copyright is that to which the work is entitled in the country of origin, provided that does not exceed the period which would apply under subsections (2) to (5).

(7) If the work is computer-generated the above provisions do not apply and copyright expires at the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was made.

(8) The provisions of this section are adapted as follows in relation to a work of joint authorship—
(a) the reference in subsection (2) to the death of the author shall be construed—
(i) if the identity of all the authors is known, as a reference to the death of the last of them to die, and
(ii) if the identity of one or more of the authors is known and the identity of one or more others is not, as a reference to the death of the last whose identity is known;
(b) the reference in subsection (4) to the identity of the author becoming known shall be construed as a reference to the identity of any of the authors becoming known;
(c) the reference in subsection (6) to the author not being a national of an EEA state shall be construed as a reference to none of the authors being a national of an EEA state.

(9) This section does not apply to Crown copyright or Parliamentary copyright (see sections 163 to 166) or to copyright which subsists by virtue of section 168 (copyright of certain international organisations)." .

(2) In section 57 (anonymous or pseudonymous works: acts permitted on assumptions as to expiry of copyright or death of author), in subsection (1)(b)(ii) and subsection (2)(b) for "50 years" substitute "70 years".

(3) In section 154 (qualification for copyright protection by reference to author), in subsection (3) for the paragraph referring to provisions of section 12 substitute—
"section 12 (duration of copyright), and section 9(4) (meaning of "unknown authorship") so far as it applies for the purposes of section 12, and."

Unpublished works are treated differently in different countries. There are a few missing works of J.S. Bach, so it's an interesting question as to who would be entitled to any rights if one crops up in an archive somewhere. His hiers? 258 years after his death? In the USA, all unpublished material of authors dead more than 70 years entered the public domain in 1/1/2003. A Bach work is protectable only as an edition. If the EU rule trumps the UK law it's 25 years from publication. If the UK law applies exclusively (which seems questionable since J.S. Bach was in Germany), it's not so clear.

Here's a link to the 1988 copyright law, which was amended in 1995 to coincide with the UK's joining of the EU: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/uk ... 80048_en_1

Posted: **Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:54 pm**

You're forgetting the transitional provisions of the 1988 Act. Paragraph 12(4) of Schedule 1 to the 1988 Act lays out the provisions as they apply to existing works:

"(1) The following provisions have effect with respect to the duration of copyright in existing works."

"(4) Copyright in the following descriptions of work continues to subsist until the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the new copyright provisions come into force—

(a) literary, dramatic and musical works of which the author has died and in relation to which none of the acts mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (e) of the proviso to section 2(3) of the 1956 Act has been done;

(b) unpublished engravings of which the author has died;

(c) unpublished photographs taken on or after 1st June 1957.

(5) Copyright in the following descriptions of work continues to subsist until the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the new copyright provisions come into force—

(a) unpublished sound recordings made on or after 1st June 1957;

(b) films not falling within sub-paragraph (2)(e) above,

unless the recording or film is published before the end of that period in which case copyright in it shall continue until the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the recording or film is published."

The new copyright provisions came into force in August 1989 and that is where the 50 year period comes from. The 70 years are due to the retrospective extension of copyright. That means that at the end of 2039 all unpublished works by authors who died before 1970 will come out of copyright and all unpublished anonymous and pseudonymous works made before 1970 will come out of copyright.

However the first publisher of such a work will still enjoy 25 years of protection after 2039 due to publication right.

BTW the UK joined the EU in 1973, not in 1995.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:03 am**

so, its not a good idea for me to download bach's music, because potentially i could be violating a copywright law?

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:21 am**

glenn_gould, No, the vast majority of J. S. Bach's work is in the public domain all over the world. He died in 1750. By 1900, the vast majority of his works had been published. The only thing we're referring to here are unpublished works - or works first published less than 70 years ago.

Most EU countries allow only a 25 year term for first publication of works of composers (like J.S. Bach) who died more than 70 years ago. The UK apparently has some sort of transitional provision in its law that would allow for a 70 year term after first publication, which lasts until 2038. This UK provision appears to be similar to the case in the US, where a J.S. Bach work first published between 1923-1977 is potentially protected for 95 years after publication, while any first published between 1978 and 2002 will be protected through 2047.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:56 pm**

Oh i see! So how do i check the published date for the work to ensure its not covered till 2038 or 2047?

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:17 pm**

glenn_gould wrote:Oh i see! So how do i check the published date for the work to ensure its not covered till 2038 or 2047?

If it's the old Bach-Gesellschaft edition, even in a reprint (Kalmus, Lee Pocket scores, etc.) I'd assume those are more than safe to download.

Posted: **Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:46 pm**

The UK provision is because we are in a transitional period between the situation in Australia, where unpublished works enjoy perpetual copyright protection, and having everything follow the same rules, ie life of the author plus 70 years for most works.

Up until the coming into force of the 1988 Act unpublished works enjoyed perpetual copyright protection in the UK. In order that holders of those copyrights were not disadvantaged by the change to unpublished works expiring in the same way as published works a transitional period of 50 years was specified. When the UK went to 70 years rather than 50 years that transitional period was not extended but the extension of copyright means that it will be authors from 1969 and earlier, not 1989 and earlier, whose unpublished works will come out of copyright in 2040.

The basic rule at the moment in the UK is that if a work is published during the lifetime of its author then copyright protection subsists for 70 years after the death of that author. If a work was not published in the lifetime of the author, but was published before 1970, then the term of protection due to it runs for 70 years. If a work is anonymous or pseudonymous the term of protection runs for 70 years from creation or, if the work is published during that time, for 70 years from the date of publishing.

The 25 year publication right is separate from the copyright. Copyright vests in the author of the work at first instance, unless the work is created in the course of employment when it vests with the employer. Publication right vests with the first person to publish an unpublished work, with the qualification that the work must be first published in the EEA and first published by an EEA national.

The following is fine:

1. Using a work published during the lifetime of an author or editor who died more than 70 years ago.
2. Using a work published after the death of an author or editor but more than 70 years ago.
3. Using an anonymous or pseudonymous work published more than 70 years ago.
4. Using a work under British Crown copyright published more than 50 years ago.

As to the last point, I published an email from someone at HMSO, as then was, concerning the status of British Crown copyright materials and their expiry outside the UK on a Wikipedia mailing list. The person from HMSO, which has delegated authority to administer British Crown copyright, confirmed that HMSO consider British Crown copyright to have expired worldwide at the same point as it expires in the UK.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:04 pm**

Okies, thanks so much guys for all ur help!!! really really appreciate it thanks!!!!

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