Sigfrid Karg-Elert: clarinet works

[simplicissimus]

I’m interested in works for clarinet by Sigfrid Karg-Elert:

Two sonatas for clarinet and piano (1917, 1919)
Two sonatas for clarinet solo (1924, 1926)

Are they PD? Thanks in advance.

[simplicissimus]

So, no information about these works at all?

[kalliwoda]

Karg-Elert (1877-1933) is PD in the EU and Canada.
A Sonata for Clarinet solo (op.110) and the 2. Sonata for cl, piano (op.139b) were both first published in 1925, so they are still under copyright in the US (but now not under the TB block anymore...), and could be posted.
I could not find library copies of the other two works, were they never published??

[steltz]

For the first two, WorldCat shows that there are currently Zimmerman editions, with 1965 copyright dates, though the op.110 has another entry for a Zimmerman edition with a 1925 copyright date. There is no editor listed on the 1965 copy, so presumably it's a straight reprint. (Anyone who can upload this needs to double check that there is no editor, alternatively get a copy of the earlier edition.)

The second sonata has an opus number of 139b. @Kalliwoda: I couldn't find a WorldCat entry of this with a 1925 publication date. Where did you find that date? WorldCat's date is 1965, though one entry says "revised edition". This might be a revision from a chamber work, though -- op.139a is Jugend, for flute, clarinet, horn, and piano, so it seems this sonata is an arrangement of the quartet. If so, it falls under the heading of derivatives, but that doesn't really make the answer easy. Carolus would know better than I, but I think different countries treat this differently. In some, the derivative starts its copyright term from the original, and in others it has its own copyright term starting from its own publication. If the latter applies, and the op.139b Sonata was published in 1965, then it is in the public domain in 2016 in Canada, 2036 in Europe, etc.

If it derives its copyright term from Jugend, then it is most probably in the public domain. The original was published between 1919 and 1927, and Masters Music does a reprint of it, as does Falls House Press.

On the other hand, if there was a Zimmerman publication in this form (clarinet or viola and piano) from 1925, then it is definitely public domain in Canada and EU.

WorldCat doesn't show the other two.

WorldCat isn't complete, because only libraries that choose to contribute put their holdings on it. However, a lot of good and large libraries do contribute, so in all probability, the other two weren't published in Karg-Elert's lifetime (or since).

[kalliwoda]

The 1925 date for the Sonata op.139b comes from this catalog card entry:
http://musikipac.staatsbibliothek-berli ... 1&cop=:osy

[Carolus]

Zimmermann was extremely bad (good for us) about publishing things with the required notice and about renewals. There's a better than 50-50 chance that any Karg-Elert pieces issued in the 1920s by them are actually free in the USA.

[steltz]

@Kalliwoda and Carolus: thanks for that info. Grove Music only lists the two sonatas that are also in WorldCat, but there is also a slightly worrying "It is difficult to compile a reliable list of works: everything published about his life and works during his lifetime originated with him, and many of the compositions listed by such authors as Schenk may not have been finished or even started. This is particularly true of pieces dated after 1918."

So it is possible that the other two clarinet works don't really exist. On the other hand it looks like, if anyone has the two Zimmerman editions, they are fair game . . .