Did Penderecki Go Too Far?

allegroamabile · Post by **allegroamabile** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:13 pm

I would like to ask what the classical music community thinks of Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima. Was he too extreme or is it pure innovative beauty?

Website · Post by **vinteuil** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:31 pm

The latter, definitely. There is no "too extreme" when something is that well-written.

allegroamabile · Post by **allegroamabile** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:49 pm

To just put it out there, I appreciate the piece, not dislike it. I think it would be better fit as incidental music though.

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:19 am

Just remember he only applied the (apt) Hiroshima attacks after he wrote the piece, he didn't write the piece for it/them.

There is absolutely nothing beautiful about the piece, it is the most vile horrible piece out there, and that is why it is so good!

allegroamabile · Post by **allegroamabile** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:17 pm

It was originally going to be called 8'37, as a hommage to John Cage. Too bad it took third prize in the competition it participated in.

Website · Post by **vinteuil** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:13 pm

I didn't say it was beautiful. I said well-written - Late Beethoven is often not beautiful, but it is sublime. This piece approaches the same standard. It is incredible.

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:21 pm

Title Post mentioned beauty. Beauty is very much overrated in music. Imagine if every piece was perfectly beautiful, be wonderful for a little while then it would get dreadfully boring.

Lyle Neff · Post by **Lyle Neff** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:18 pm

Yagan Kiely wrote:Title Post mentioned beauty. Beauty is very much overrated in music. Imagine if every piece was perfectly beautiful, be wonderful for a little while then it would get dreadfully boring.

So would all-ugliness.

Website · Post by **vinteuil** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:23 pm

That's why variety exists...and why we can still like Dufay even though we've "advanced" since then.

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:45 am

Early romantic philosophy was obsessed with beauty that's all.

Website · Post by **vinteuil** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:52 pm

Berlioz?? He was fantastic at making horrific-sounding things as imagery.

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:44 am

I said philosophy.

Website · Post by **vinteuil** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:59 am

True enough. I withdraw the previous.

gardano · Post by **gardano** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:09 pm

The Threnody is an amazing piece.
I must admit that listening to a recording of a (violin?) concerto, I think with Isaac Stern, is the only instance I can remember that a piece of music made me physically sick. Does that count as beautiful? no. Effective? Well, I think that defines it!

Would I listen to Penderecki again? No, probably not.

allegroamabile · Post by **allegroamabile** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:43 pm

gardano wrote:The Threnody is an amazing piece.
I must admit that listening to a recording of a (violin?) concerto, I think with Isaac Stern, is the only instance I can remember that a piece of music made me physically sick.

I remember listening to Charles Ives's General William Booth Enter into Heaven and the dissonance in that piece causing me to feel very nauseous, so I know exactly what you were going through

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