Rename Piano Trio No. 4

[allegroamabile]

May somebody please change Beethoven's Piano Trio No. 4 to Clarinet Trio, Op. 11 or something of that nature. If I'm not mistaken, that name can only be used if the clarinet is replaced by violin.

Thank you

[vinteuil]

The Gasenhauer - I've only seen it as No.4. Sorry.

[steltz]

As a clarinettist, I also always have to think twice when I see "No. 4", but it was in fact, the fourth of Beethoven's trios.

According to Scherman and Biancoli's Beethoven Companion, the op. 1 Trios, of which there are three, were composed no later than 1794, as they were played for Haydn at that point. Then the op.11 comes in 1798. The next one after that is the op.38, which is an arrangement of Beethoven's Septet, and that was published in 1802 in the Septet version, later being transcribed by Beethoven himself for Trio.

The opus numbers aren't always consecutive, because the op.16 Trio is from 1796, but for the Trios, the chronology fits the opus numbers, and the appellation "No.4" is accurate.

And this numbering doesn't include the WoO (Without Opus) works, only works published (mostly) during Beethoven's lifetime. Some of the WoO works are considered student works not really worthy of publication then. The only reason we look at them all now is to examine the development of a great musician.

For instance, the flute/bassoon/piano trio WoO37 is a work I've always considered weaker than the other trios involving winds. It was written before the other trios, but is never included in the numbering. There is at least one other trio (Beethoven himself rejected it for inclusion in the op.1 set) written before the op.1 and op.11 trios, but not published then, so not included in the numbering.

Sorry . . . .

[allegroamabile]

The Beethoven Duets for Clarinet and Bassoon are also WoO pieces that I wondered if they were actually composed by Beethoven himself. I think he looked down upon his compositions for winds and remarked that it was practice for writing for that section in symphonic works.

I have to say the Gassenhauer Trio is a pretty boring piece. I think the Op. 38 Trio is a much better composition though written for septet beforehand.

[steltz]

Have to disagree there -- I think the op.38 doesn't work quite the way I would like -- I think the Septet version works much better. The op.11 -- I know what you're saying, but it was an early work, at least as far as his knowledge of composing for the clarinet goes. I know all of the op.1 trios are stronger, but he understood strings and piano better. I kind of always felt like he never really understood how to use a clarinet until the 4th Symphony. The solo in the 2nd is sweet and all, and there are some nice things in the 3rd, but the slow movement of the 4th -- now he understands us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And can compose to our fullest depth and meaning.

According to the Beethoven Companion, the clarinet/bassoon duos WoO 27, from 1792, are original, and the article, written by John Warrack, calls them
slender but attractive.

[allegroamabile]

hmm...

about the Trio, Op. 38, let me just say this: If Beethoven marked the arrangement as a separate opus number, that is a pretty good sign that he thought it should have been originally composed for piano, clarinet, and cello.

It also appears that IMSLP marked the Duets for Clarinet and Bassoon being written from 1810-1815.

http://imslp.org/wiki/3_Duets_for_Clari ... udwig_van)