Zip files, not possible to upload

Post by **Funper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:18 pm

I can't upload zip files, apparently because "it is not recommended", even if warnings are suppressed (ignored). Is there a problem?

Post by **imslp** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:06 pm

I've disallowed ZIP file uploading a few days ago because I felt that it is a disaster waiting to happen. As IMSLP grows, it will inevitably attract the attention of people who do not have good intentions, and who will use the trust that IMSLP users have in IMSLP to do questionable deeds. Even though the ZIP page says that the only formats allowed inside ZIP files are PDF, DJVU, MUS and SIB, not all IMSLP users read that page, and it will be trivial to trick unsuspecting users.

I haven't made any official announcements, but ZIP file uploading will probably never be allowed again. The recommended thing to do now is to use a PDF file with bookmarks... see thread here.

By the way, what do you mean by "ignore"? That should have been a fatal error that cannot be ignored/worked around.

Post by **Funper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:06 pm

haha when you upload files using wiki you have the option to "Ignore warnings".

Post by **imslp** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:11 pm

Oh that... that ignores warnings, but the file type error is not a warning; it's an error

And so cannot be ignored.

Post by **Funper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:40 pm

ZIP files should be allowed, especially when all these small typeset files crowd pages. ZIP files is all tidy and it can fit as many files as possibly without crowding pages with more than just one entry. Just look at Erik Satie's Trois Gynopedies (or something)! Files under 20 kb piling over each other, besides didn't you just recently say in the wiki that files shouldn't be under 100 kb? Aren't you making an all to rash conclusion? Most people don't want to bring IMSLP down to its destruction. But then, atleast some users should be able to upload ZIP files in order to e.g. avoid unnecessary overcrowding.

emeraldimp · Post by **emeraldimp** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 pm

Most people don't want to bring IMSLP down to its destruction.

Yes, but unfortunately, it only takes a few, and some people have (believe it or not) WAY more time than even Feldmahler

. Also we've been able to catch most (hopefully all) of the malicious things that have been done, we won't be able to forever.

Myself, I'm not sure allowing Finale/Sibelius/etc files is a good idea, either, partly because most of those formats aren't open (and thus we could well have files on the server that very few could read), and partly because I (personally) would like to encourage as much openness as possible, which means a filetype that can be read by the most; thus PDF is, at least for now, the best choice.

In terms of page crowding: I think that combining the files into a single (or maybe only a few) PDF(s) with bookmarks is the best notion; it saves (some) on bandwidth and (again, some) server space, and it makes it more convenient for the user (in general), too.

Post by **Funper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:33 pm

You can't combine MUS files in PDFs.

emeraldimp · Post by **emeraldimp** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:43 pm

Funper wrote:You can't combine MUS files in PDFs.

True*. I was just going to mention that the only files on the Gynopedies page that I would bother combining anyway were the three MUS ones (since they're all the same edition.

*Unless, of course, you convert them to PDF, probably via printing to postscript and then run a ps2pdf. I'd do it, but... I can't read MUS files.

Post by **Funper** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:52 pm

That would be useless. The pdfs are already combined. I think this whole Typeset format thing used on IMSLP is useless too, users who wan't to be "opensource" with their scores could upload them somewhere else, Mutopia or WIMA. On IMSLP we use hardcore pdfs and useless (this to) DJVUs!

By the way, DJVU are very hard to print from computers which aren't mine (DJVU-readable software is hardly bundled with every PC).

Post by **daphnis** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:24 am

Either typeset files (from Finale/Sibelius) can be printed with a free PDF driver (no intermediate PS generation necessary) such as CutePDF, or they can be exported using the open file format XML. In Finale's case, most versions come with an ability to convert the MUS files into XML. For Sibelius, it can only open these XML files but not generate them.

I use both programs, so if the immediate need arises to convert them to PDF I could do so, however I'm not volunteering my services in order to freely accept MUS and SIB files

emeraldimp · Post by **emeraldimp** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:30 am

Funper wrote:That would be useless. The pdfs are already combined. I think this whole Typeset format thing used on IMSLP is useless too, users who wan't to be "opensource" with their scores could upload them somewhere else, Mutopia or WIMA. On IMSLP we use hardcore pdfs and useless (this to) DJVUs!

Heh, this is certainly a point of internal conflict for me; I'd like to be able to use music files to make arrangements and such, but the biggest problem is the lack of a standard free music file format (I know about MusicXML, but how many people use it? Ditto for Lilypond, really). My imperfect solution is to offer the transcriptions I make on my own website in the various formats I have, as well as PDF, which, at the very least, lets people look at them, if not actually edit them as easily as one would wish.

Maybe someday there will be an opensource/free software music OCR program that far outstrips the commercial programs and we can run on uploaded PDFs and so automatically generate MusicXML or whatever. I'd pay a lot (a WHOLE LOT) of money for something like that. Once I have some money.

And I wouldn't know about DJVU; if I've used it, it was so far in the past that I don't remember (at least last week), and the PDFs with the Group4 compression give me what I consider to be excellent compression.

Post by **imslp** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:58 am

Well... the original reason I allowed DJVU files was because there was a nicely free creator software available (as opposed to the wallet-emptying Adobe Acrobat). I guess that is not so much an issue now; though apparently DJVU is optimized for scans, so I'm not sure what to do with it. I may just deprecate it anyway.

Post by **Funper** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:37 am

Even if DJVUs are very nice and although they stay away from your wallet, the project does not mainly consist of DJVU files. Besides it a little to late trying to replace Adobe Acrobat (which has been around for some time and is certainly preferred by the majority) with LizardTech's DeJaVU.

In the past I have converted some DJVUs into PDFs, I/we(?) might as well continue with that?

Post by **imslp** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:54 am

I've officially deprecated the DJVU format. For converting, I'd say sure since there aren't many DJVU files anyway. Just make sure there is no quality loss in the process

Post by **imslp** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:18 am

emeraldimp wrote:Myself, I'm not sure allowing Finale/Sibelius/etc files is a good idea, either, partly because most of those formats aren't open (and thus we could well have files on the server that very few could read), and partly because I (personally) would like to encourage as much openness as possible, which means a filetype that can be read by the most; thus PDF is, at least for now, the best choice.

I'd very much agree with you... but unfortunately most people like the convenience those file types provide :/ Regardless of whether Finale and Sibelius files will be deprecated in the future (and they may; I've been thinking about them for a while now), currently it is greatly encouraged for users to submit a PDF version of the score in addition to the Finale or Sibelius file.