Mozart Concerto for oboe

[Notenschreiber]

This is very strange: Mozart´s Oboe concerto is well known as "Oboe concerto KV 314"-
Who knows the concerto K271k? Should we prefer popular or scientific names?

[Melodia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6chel_catalogue

[Philidor]

Excellent background here: http://www.mozartforum.com/VB_forum/sho ... php?t=1465

I played the first movement of Mozart's flute concerto in D major, K314 for my grade VIII exam. A friend at school who played the oboe would stick his head round the practise room door and say: "You're playing MY concerto again... in the wrong key!"

[Notenschreiber]

In the Link of Melodia (Köchel 6) I cannot find K271k, but 285d. May be one has to look up "lost works".
(see the link of philidor). In spite of being against the conventions for the use of the different Köchel´s, one
should at least mention K 314 in the titel of the page.

[pml]

Dear Notenschreiber,

KV 314 is the original Köchel catalogue number used in the work's page title, and referring back to the original edition by Köchel we find it only mentions the version for flute and orchestra in D major – and subsequently as we know, this was actually the second version of the work (hence the version for flute became 285d in the third edition of the catalogue). The original version of the work was however for oboe and orchestra in C major, as alluded to by Philidor’s humourous post above (hence it’s 271k in the sixth edition of the catalogue, which still precedes KV^3 285d). The question is, has the original catalogue number KV 314 bifurcated to include the multiple different versions of the same work?

Owing to the large similarities between the two works I would conclude it’s a little too fussy to deny that KV 314 must only refer to the flute version, which is a derivative arrangement rather than an original work, and according to the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe, they seem to be in agreement with this idea, because they refer to the oboe version as KV 314 (285d* KV^6 271k). Why? The Köchel-Verzeichniß is a thematic catalogue, and the two version share the exact same thematic material, even if the transposition of a tone involves some instrumental revoicings. Since the version for flute sports two catalogue numbers (314/285d) I therefore think it is entirely appropriate for the oboe version to do so as well (314/271k).

I think it’s true to say that nothing is quite as obvious as you might expect with Mozart’s œuvre.

Regards, PML

[Davydov]

Fair enough. I've amended the title to "Oboe Concerto in C major, K.314/271k".

[Melodia]

Really, in a sense, the Oboe Concerto is 271k. The general consensus is that it is the piece found in the 1920s that seems to be what Mozart used as a basis for the Flute Concerto #2-- when Koechel did his original catalog, the Oboe Concerto was thought lost, so "314" really only referred to the FC....but it was found before the K3 revision, so they just stuck the 314 number on to it for simplicity's sake.

[pml]

Yes, but the view seems to be that thematically, the oboe concerto shares exactly the same material as the flute concerto – the concertos are close to identical except for the issues caused by the transposition to a higher key, and chronologically, the oboe version is the original version of the work KV 314. Elsewhere Köchel combines multiple versions of the same work into the one catalogue number, so for example, we don’t have multiple different catalogue numbers for the two versions of the Symphony in G minor KV 550 or the two versions of the double piano concerto in E flat KV 365 (316a). For the moment I don't recall any other specific instance where two Mozart works differ in essentials only by transposition necessitated by instrumentation, but would be doubtful that this would have merited two different catalogue numbers as assigned by Köchel himself. If there’s another argument to explain why the NMA, for example, refers to the oboe concerto as KV 314 (285d* KV^6 271k) then it would be good to know what it is. :)

[Melodia]

). For the moment I don't recall any other specific instance where two Mozart works differ in essentials only by transposition necessitated by instrumentation, but would be doubtful that this would have merited two different catalogue numbers as assigned by Köchel himself.

Well the string quartet version of the Serenade #12 for wind octet has a separate number, and a fragment of a Kyrie arrangement gets put in the appendix. Those seem to be the only examples, but Mozart didn't exactly do too many arrangements of his own music either in this sense.
I guess, though, the fact that the two piano version of the three piano concerto has the same number makes your point....

[Notenschreiber]

I think, in Köchel one speaks of two theoretically different oboe concertos of Mozart:
The first one is K 314 (or K 285d), which is up to transposition identic with the flute concerto with the same Kochel number,
the second one is a lost concerto with number 271k. Musicological research states, nearly certain, that the following
equation holds: K 314 = K 271k. (Not in mathematical sense).
Therefore therefore it seems to me, that there is no reason to take the number 271k for our well known oboe concerto, but it
is an additional information to mention this number in the title.

[pml]

Notenschreiber,

perhaps I’m misreading you, but it seems clear 271k doesn’t refer to any other lost work – that is its number in the most recent Köchel (6th edition). Before the rediscovery of the score of the oboe concerto it was suspected that the D major version was a transposition from C major – Alfred Einstein observed back in 1946 how the violins in the D major version never go below the lowest A.

Regards, PML

[Notenschreiber]

Hi PML,

in Köchel 6, page 284, we find the following about 271k: " Es scheint verloren, wenn es nicht mit der Urfassung von 285d (314) identisch ist."
(It seems to be lost, if not identically with 285d). So a priori Kochel is speaking of two different oboe concertos, but it seems to be clear now,
that 271k is the same as the "Urfassung" of 314.

with best regards,

Notenschreiber

[Yava]

Good day, everybody,
i'm searching for Allegro aperto Oboe Concerto in C major, K. 271k / K. 314. Some has it and can share..?

[daphnis]

Did you bother to look for it on the wiki?

http://imslp.org/wiki/Oboe_Concerto_in_ ... g_Amadeus)