2nd ue cease & desist letter

Musiclover · Post by **Musiclover** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:07 pm

as i'm german, i do not know whether i got every mentioned issue of the letter.

but:
it is only about ue-published scores,
and only about the "ue authors" B. Bartok, A. Berg, l. Friedman, L. Janacek, G. Mahler, J. Marx, O. Respighi, A. Schönberg, R. Strauss, K. Szymanowski and A. von Zemlinsk, isn't it???

just 11 composers of hundreds you, Feldmahler, greatly collected in IMSLP, the best web site i ever visited.

and that shall be finished now???

besides, and i looked it up in various internet biographies, at least 5 of the mentioned "ue authors" cannot be under copyright protection anymore, because they are dead for (more then) 70 years now:
- Alban Berg died Christmas Eve, 1935 (72 years ago)
- Leos Janacek: 12 Aug 1928 (79 years ago)
- Gustav Mahler: 18 May 1911 (96 years ago)
- Ottorino Respighi: 18 Apr 1936 (71 years ago)
- Karol Maciej Szymanowski: 29 Mar 1937 (exactly 70 years ago)

so what does ue complain about??
6 composers --> probably about 50 scores out of - how much was it? - 15,000 or so... law experts to the front: do they have the right to react so radically??

so, i agree to Peter:
take those few scores (and maybe the ones of other publishers with still running copyright protection) out of the library, and start the project again - with the condition that there are no more uploads of copyrighted works.

do not let the wonderful project fail!
do not give up!

besides, 6 days time (13 Oct - letter arrives --- 19 Oct - dead line; again: law experts: is this ok???) is pretty unfair, i think!!!
i am angry!

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:41 pm

The issue with the Completely out of copyright composers is possibly because of the Publication date of the score, not because of the composers.

so, i agree to Peter:
take those few scores (and maybe the ones of other publishers with still running copyright protection) out of the library, and start the project again - with the condition that there are no more uploads of copyrighted works.

As have I mentioned this a few times, we cannot take the easy way out if possible. Me must try hard to IP ban European citizens on EU(c) scores. This is what UE has suggested as a compromise so to speak. While this doesn't make certain that people will not download them. (there are various ways, ALL of which should be a warnable offence if mentioned how to do it on the forum if it goes through like this.) There has to be a line drawn somewhere, if a geek hacks into google stealing their scans of (c) books, should the publishers sue google for not making their security foolproof? No, they implemented security features, as is IP banning.

Kalli · Post by **Kalli** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:46 pm

Hallo Musiclover,

ich sehe 2 Probleme:

1. Es gibt Komponisten, die wohl über 70 Jahre hinaus geschuetzt werden (???). Die Frage ist, für welche Komponisten das gilt. Sonst haben wir gleich wieder den naechsten Brief im Postkasten.

2. Der Brief ist meines Erachtens vorgeschoben. Wie ich woanders geschrieben habe, habe ich vor wenigen Wochen die 4 Stuecke fuer Klarinette von Alban Berg fuer 16 Euro gekauft. Da Berg aber schon 1935 gestorben ist, haette ich die Noten über IMSLP kostenlos downloaden koennen. Kann mir also gut vorstellen, dass die UE das generell unterbinden will, da sonst niemand mehr die teuren Noten dort kauft.

For the others:

I see 2 problems:

1. There are composers, who are protected more than 70 years (???). The question is, who they are. If they are not located, we will get the next letter from another publisher in some weeks.

2. My opinion is, that the real reason for the letter is, to prohibit the UE for all downloads. I bought a score of the 4 pieces for clarinet by Alban Berg a few weeks ago for 16 Euros. Alban Berg died in 1935 (> 70 years). So as a German, I could download the score for free! Who would buy the score at the UE, if he could get it for free at the IMSLP?

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:55 pm

There is no legal loop hole anywhere in the world for works that are completely out of copyright.

Kalli · Post by **Kalli** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:58 pm

OK. That is good to know.

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:01 pm

I believe I should also add however, that publication date is different and that when I say works I mean score, for there is a difference.

When I mean out of copyright, I mean everything connected with the physical copy is completely out of copyright. Libretto, Editor, Publisher, Piece, Composer etc. etc.

/end disclaimer.

Kalli · Post by **Kalli** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:22 pm

That could be the answer on my next question! I asked myself, what's about the case, if a publisher published a work, which is in the public domain, in the year 2007?

For Example:

Work by Monteverdi is published by Schott in 2007. If it's a revised edition or Urtext-Edition, the work is a bit different to all the recent publications. I can't belive, that the score is in that case in the public domain. In my understanding, this special publication must be in public domain in 2057 or 2077, isnt't it?

Post by **Yagan Kiely** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:30 pm

The only possibility for a recent publication to be PD is if (as far as I know) it is a reprint, a reprint with very limited editing, or if it is considered scholarly, (scientifically) important, but that last one would have several limitation, such as possibly for study purposes only (such as the Mahler Symphony no, 1 on IMSLP right now).

I am no expert, I have merely picked this understanding I currently possess from various here or from websites.

Post by **Peter** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:31 pm

I'm sorry, but we really cannot endlessly explain again and again the basic principles of copyrightship and public domain, which was explained very clearly on IMSLP. The forum is drowning.
Maybe Leonard can copy the page "Public Domain" from Google Cache to his website, if many more of these questions arise.

Sorry for the inconvenience, Kalli.