Need for publicity - IMSLP in the press / on the net
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horndude77
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Two posts moved from another topic:
ArcticWind7 wrote:http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u ... 016122;p=0
http://news.google.com.au/news?q=IMSLP& ... a=N&tab=wn
There is discussion.
nikolas wrote:Hi
New to the forum, old in checking the site out.
There is more discussion going on, all around most musical sites I know (and will create more threads in time):
http://new.bigbluecup.com/yabb/index.php?topic=32737.0
http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/ims ... 11843.html
http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/show ... hp?t=10297
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=56689
and will hit vi-control, harmony central, SPNM forums, and whatever else I can think of.
Great, there should be a link on the front page of islmp.org!horndude77 wrote:Someone has already dugg it:
http://digg.com/videos/music/Internatio ... oses_Doors
It's going to need quite a few diggs to get to the front page though.
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pml
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Hi all,
Edit: Groklaw appear to have rejected the story I sent. Please resyndicate as you see fit: the copyright is © Philip Legge, licenced as CC-by-sa-3.0 unported licence by the way.
Regards, Philip
==========================================================================
Another victory for threats of litigation (and FUD) over the public domain
==========================================================================
The International Sheet Music Library Project (IMSLP) is by no means the first or only attempt to gather together public domain sheet music of a large variety of composers whose works arguably represent the foundation of Western art music, or classical music. It only happened to be one of the best organised technically, and was rapidly becoming one of the largest such sites on the Internet. That the website was conceived and administered by a Canadian university student is a testament to the empowerment of the individual that the Internet is able to provide.
Where IMSLP seems to have over-reached itself, is in the realm of national and international copyright. Canadian law has resolutely stayed at copyright for the term of the author's life plus fifty years, while much of Europe is now at life plus 70. The wedge of 20 extra years for an author's work to be exploitable in Europe was sufficient for at least one European publisher to send cease-and-desist letters and an associated ultimatum from their Canadian legal representatives, to prevent IMSLP from offering works that while in the public domain in Canada, were still under copyright in Europe. Despite offers of legal assistance from several legal departments at Canadian universities should the matter have proceeded to litigation, in the end the university student capitulated and took down the entire site.
It is worth mentioning that IMSLP operated two main servers, one holding works in the public domain under Canadian law (life+50) and hosted in Canada, while another server located in the United States held works published prior to 1923, deemed as public domain there in accordance with the historically-enacted laws that emphasised the date of publication rather than the lifespan of the author. By having two complementary ranges of scores available, the site aimed to offer "the most public domain music to the citizens of any particular country, as permitted by law".
It was this generosity that came unstuck: despite the site having an elaborate copyright tagging system that would give end-users notice of compositions that fall under copyright in certain jurisdictions, there was no technical means in place to block downloads as prevention of copyright violation. The second cease-and-desist letter mentioned that IMSLP had not implemented IP filtering, despite this being a poor safeguard technically: both easily subverted and porous. For most of the centuries-old public domain works, such means would not be necessary as the works are regarded as public domain more or less everywhere: instead the whole site has been undone by the works in the ambiguous copyright state generated by a lack of "harmonisation" between different national jurisdictions.
What is lamentable about the demise of the IMSLP is that many of the works that the European publishers objected to are ostensibly in the public domain in Europe: Alban Berg, Leos Janacek, Ottorino Respighi and Gustav Mahler all died prior to 1937 (the crucial date for "life+70"), and all but one of the other composers named in the cease-and-desist letter died more than fifty years ago: the sole exception, who died in 1964, is represented by pre-1923 works in the public domain in the United States, and hosted there. Perhaps in the case of Mahler, who died 96 years ago, we see that the publisher had their Mexican interests in mind: the copyright term in Mexico covers the duration of the author's life, and 100 years afterwards.
One well-respected and knowledgeable contributor to the site, with wide experience in the music publishing industry, views this as just the first step in attacking the global public domain: if some multi-national corporation wanted to go to the trouble of purchasing a sovereign island nation somewhere, it could then proclaim perpetual copyright as law, and hire legal firms all over the world to enforce copyright via threats of lawsuits.
Edit: Groklaw appear to have rejected the story I sent. Please resyndicate as you see fit: the copyright is © Philip Legge, licenced as CC-by-sa-3.0 unported licence by the way.
Regards, Philip
==========================================================================
Another victory for threats of litigation (and FUD) over the public domain
==========================================================================
The International Sheet Music Library Project (IMSLP) is by no means the first or only attempt to gather together public domain sheet music of a large variety of composers whose works arguably represent the foundation of Western art music, or classical music. It only happened to be one of the best organised technically, and was rapidly becoming one of the largest such sites on the Internet. That the website was conceived and administered by a Canadian university student is a testament to the empowerment of the individual that the Internet is able to provide.
Where IMSLP seems to have over-reached itself, is in the realm of national and international copyright. Canadian law has resolutely stayed at copyright for the term of the author's life plus fifty years, while much of Europe is now at life plus 70. The wedge of 20 extra years for an author's work to be exploitable in Europe was sufficient for at least one European publisher to send cease-and-desist letters and an associated ultimatum from their Canadian legal representatives, to prevent IMSLP from offering works that while in the public domain in Canada, were still under copyright in Europe. Despite offers of legal assistance from several legal departments at Canadian universities should the matter have proceeded to litigation, in the end the university student capitulated and took down the entire site.
It is worth mentioning that IMSLP operated two main servers, one holding works in the public domain under Canadian law (life+50) and hosted in Canada, while another server located in the United States held works published prior to 1923, deemed as public domain there in accordance with the historically-enacted laws that emphasised the date of publication rather than the lifespan of the author. By having two complementary ranges of scores available, the site aimed to offer "the most public domain music to the citizens of any particular country, as permitted by law".
It was this generosity that came unstuck: despite the site having an elaborate copyright tagging system that would give end-users notice of compositions that fall under copyright in certain jurisdictions, there was no technical means in place to block downloads as prevention of copyright violation. The second cease-and-desist letter mentioned that IMSLP had not implemented IP filtering, despite this being a poor safeguard technically: both easily subverted and porous. For most of the centuries-old public domain works, such means would not be necessary as the works are regarded as public domain more or less everywhere: instead the whole site has been undone by the works in the ambiguous copyright state generated by a lack of "harmonisation" between different national jurisdictions.
What is lamentable about the demise of the IMSLP is that many of the works that the European publishers objected to are ostensibly in the public domain in Europe: Alban Berg, Leos Janacek, Ottorino Respighi and Gustav Mahler all died prior to 1937 (the crucial date for "life+70"), and all but one of the other composers named in the cease-and-desist letter died more than fifty years ago: the sole exception, who died in 1964, is represented by pre-1923 works in the public domain in the United States, and hosted there. Perhaps in the case of Mahler, who died 96 years ago, we see that the publisher had their Mexican interests in mind: the copyright term in Mexico covers the duration of the author's life, and 100 years afterwards.
One well-respected and knowledgeable contributor to the site, with wide experience in the music publishing industry, views this as just the first step in attacking the global public domain: if some multi-national corporation wanted to go to the trouble of purchasing a sovereign island nation somewhere, it could then proclaim perpetual copyright as law, and hire legal firms all over the world to enforce copyright via threats of lawsuits.
Last edited by pml on Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Yagan Kiely
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An interesting blog posting by Howard Knopf, a Canadian copyright lawyer with a classical music background himself:
http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/200 ... ersal.html
http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/200 ... ersal.html
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emeraldimp
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Both Techdirt http://techdirt.com/articles/20071021/145116.shtml and Boing Boing http://boingboing.net/2007/10/21/#entry-39279 have articles, as well.
EDIT: ...and The Register
EDIT: ...and The Register
Hmm. Giving hope!WJM wrote:An interesting blog posting by Howard Knopf, a Canadian copyright lawyer with a classical music background himself:
http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/200 ... ersal.html
Liszt's myspace blog
"Je voudrais lui voler la manière de rendre mes propres études..." Chopin said of Liszt, ("I would like to steal his way of playing my own études.")
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Yagan Kiely
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BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7074786.stm
At last IMSLP got an article on a major news company.
At last IMSLP got an article on a major news company.
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krattai
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I found out about the "problem" via the print version of Information Week which pointed to the blog article:
http://informationweek.com/1160/blog_copyright.htm
http://informationweek.com/1160/blog_copyright.htm
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krattai
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We also host Howard Rheingold's former online community called Electric Minds and posted about this for discussion:
http://www.electricminds.org/venice/con ... f=16&top=9
http://www.electricminds.org/venice/con ... f=16&top=9
Now I'm getting involved....
Enough of this. I represent a small community of string musicians. My websites include
http://www.dollarviolinmusic.com, and others. It has been my mission to provide music, as well as musical scholarships to the select few that can afford it. At USD$1 per file, I'm hoping everyone can.
Dollar means USD. USD is falling rapidly and I don't care. Recession, Depression makes no difference to me.
As a self-made millionaire in royalties, compositions, and arrangements, I simply must speak up on this one. I WAS considering making a little money on the side with the whole "dollar process". Now, considering my library in itself, without the benefit of IMSLP, is more than substantial vs. the competition, INCLUDING IMSLP!!! I have been in meetings the whole week, both performing and legal, I'm now going to speak up.
It WAS my intention to make money in downloading PD parts. I will still do so.
However, I have realized the bigger picture here. My original intent was to make those so-called publishers who have used the same plates for 100+ years pay for their laziness and provide parts for the generalized musicians out there. Case in point:
****** publisher out of NY sent me an injunction. My lawyers, promptly sued them for A: Restriction of Trade and B: Barristry. The injunction was pulled within three hours. Go figure.
Now, I've got the money and the lawyers to do something. My download site is not the greatest, and right now it caters to the strings. Yes, you may have guessed www.dollarviolinmusic.com. I do own several other websites, including www.dollarsheetmusic.com, which is on hold while DVM.com gets off the ground.
IMSLP being taken offline is a bonus to me. It has increased traffic and sales.
Unfortunately, even as a cellist, professionally, I cannot describe the full extent of what is happening here on IMSLP. This site is being bullied by an organization, that according to it's public statements over it's financial situation CANNOT begin to pursue this.
I CAN and WILL pursue UE Vienna for the above two breach in Copyright law, wether it be for CA or any other country.
I CAN and WILL make sure the 12 orchestras and Theaters I work with will NOT rent or purchase ANY parts from UE period. This means COMPLETE Boycott of all UE parts. In addition, I will make it my pledge to confront UE on every and all levels to ensure that all parts by UE will be transcribed by ME or my associates to ensure EVERY orchestra, ensemble, and theater will be able to play ANY PD music in the US and Canada by UE. My original idea was to put Lucks, Kalmus, and a couple other publishers who shall remain nameless out of business. UE, deciding that they are invulnerable to copyright law in other countries is now added to my list. I DO have a battery of arrangers and copyists that work closely with me. They like my checks by the way. They don't bounce....
As an additional bonus, my network includes nearly 100 orchestras and ensembles across the US, Canada, and SA that will follow my lead.
My point:
UE, continue this course and even by EU copyright I'll ensure that you are out of business by 2010. Even if it means spending my millions on your demise. Just kidding. I'm one person. You are a corporation. What could I really do to you?
(oh that's right. I live for 70 years. How short life is without purpose....)
Hmph. Is that a veiled threat? Maybe....
You were wrong. One spanner in the works screws up the governing parties...I formally request a statement withdrawing your CLAIM providing the parts IN QUESTION that ARE UNDER QUESTION are withdrawn be posted HERE in the forums, AND an apology to the owner of this website be posted HERE under your own "Nom de Plume" This site has done NOTHING to warrant the BARRISTRY that you have tried to dictate, wether it be at your behest, or your CDN$10/hr lawyers.
I expect a post within 72 hours of this, since I KNOW you are monitoring this forum. The parts that you are questioning will be removed. You already have been notified that this will happen; IF they are a violation of CA copyright law.
It seems that there are substantial members of the community out there that resent having to PAY big money for parts that are SUPPOSED to be in PD. My personal solution was paying USD$1 for anything I've got in my library.
IMSLP has more time, resources and personnel than I do. What I DO have is money. AND the desire to ensure that PD is exactly that; PD.
My war: All publishers. My goal: All publishers out of business.
I offer scholarships, to ALL students. I give away USD$7000 a year already. DVM.com is my way of increasing that. Any publishers that stand in the way of this WILL be crushed. I'm new, I've got money, and I've got the desire to go head-to-head with everybody. Legally.
IF I were to take over IMSLP and keep it running. I would like NOTHING to change. The same mods and admins that kept it going are still "employed". I will maintain the financial burden, including legal fees.
I'm sorry, I don't get scared as easily. I know copyright law.
I even know Mexico, Afghanistan and Cote D'Ivoire copyrights. However, it seems unreasonable to me that CA citizens are subject to EU copyright law....OH... I FORGOT!!!
YOU ARE NOT!!!!!!
I love paying legal fees....simply because i don't.
Seems I'm a celebrity. Well, to a certain extent......Lawyers like that. Means they get publicity. I'm prepared to offer my lawyers 75% of all proceeds from lawsuits.
They like that. Especially mine. Money is nice, and they have bills to pay.
However, I've got morals and ethics.
PD means EVERYONE can use it. EU + 70 so be it. Stick to EU law, and prosecute all who download illegal parts. You CANNOT prohibit a site from following it's country's own Copyright laws.
Majority of IMSLP users are from CA and US.
You want ISP tracking.....Forget it. I'll go along with it if YOU PAY the fees. Oh, that's right. You can't.
EU publishing houses cannot even begin to fathom their losses when the internet was non-existant. You cannot even BEGIN to understand...
Your regime is over. I am not a pirate. Never will be. However there is something here.... It's called MUSIC.
In a time of the decay of classical music in the world, you stifle it.
In a time of the decay of moralism, you stifle it.
Now you will pay, and I will make sure of it if you pursue this course.
I will be happy to completely fund and take over IMSLP, as long as nothing changes. This means that the same personnel take care of the forums and the status of works, including everything that has currently been done .
I can maintain US servers as well as CN servers. I will even host EU servers if need be.
It's not about the money. It's about the service.
Is it a conflict of interests between the sites? Yes. I'm willing to accept that. It's called "freedom of advertising". When it comes to my sites, I'm hoping that the added "charitable downloads" will make it worthwhile.
Enough already. I'm tired and need to go to bed. I've followed these forums very closely since the UE fiasco, and I'm fed up. Was it a matter of time? Yes. Is it time someone stepped forward? Yes. Our lifespan is too short to sit back and be complacent. My fellow Americans, sadly enough are letting this happen on other levels. Here is ONE American who WILL NOT sit idly by and let things continue on this course. I WILL accept responsibility. Yes, the below number IS my real number and I WILL answer all calls. You like C&D letters? Me too. Gives me great satisfaction to send them.
Said my piece, and I'm out. My cel number in the US is 407-618-3655. I'll be on tour 11/25-12/18. My phone is with me. I personally would like to speak with any people concerned with IMSLP.
Comments and concerns please field me.
Paul Fleury
www.cellopro.net
www.dollarviolinmusic.com
http://www.dollarviolinmusic.com, and others. It has been my mission to provide music, as well as musical scholarships to the select few that can afford it. At USD$1 per file, I'm hoping everyone can.
Dollar means USD. USD is falling rapidly and I don't care. Recession, Depression makes no difference to me.
As a self-made millionaire in royalties, compositions, and arrangements, I simply must speak up on this one. I WAS considering making a little money on the side with the whole "dollar process". Now, considering my library in itself, without the benefit of IMSLP, is more than substantial vs. the competition, INCLUDING IMSLP!!! I have been in meetings the whole week, both performing and legal, I'm now going to speak up.
It WAS my intention to make money in downloading PD parts. I will still do so.
However, I have realized the bigger picture here. My original intent was to make those so-called publishers who have used the same plates for 100+ years pay for their laziness and provide parts for the generalized musicians out there. Case in point:
****** publisher out of NY sent me an injunction. My lawyers, promptly sued them for A: Restriction of Trade and B: Barristry. The injunction was pulled within three hours. Go figure.
Now, I've got the money and the lawyers to do something. My download site is not the greatest, and right now it caters to the strings. Yes, you may have guessed www.dollarviolinmusic.com. I do own several other websites, including www.dollarsheetmusic.com, which is on hold while DVM.com gets off the ground.
IMSLP being taken offline is a bonus to me. It has increased traffic and sales.
Unfortunately, even as a cellist, professionally, I cannot describe the full extent of what is happening here on IMSLP. This site is being bullied by an organization, that according to it's public statements over it's financial situation CANNOT begin to pursue this.
I CAN and WILL pursue UE Vienna for the above two breach in Copyright law, wether it be for CA or any other country.
I CAN and WILL make sure the 12 orchestras and Theaters I work with will NOT rent or purchase ANY parts from UE period. This means COMPLETE Boycott of all UE parts. In addition, I will make it my pledge to confront UE on every and all levels to ensure that all parts by UE will be transcribed by ME or my associates to ensure EVERY orchestra, ensemble, and theater will be able to play ANY PD music in the US and Canada by UE. My original idea was to put Lucks, Kalmus, and a couple other publishers who shall remain nameless out of business. UE, deciding that they are invulnerable to copyright law in other countries is now added to my list. I DO have a battery of arrangers and copyists that work closely with me. They like my checks by the way. They don't bounce....
As an additional bonus, my network includes nearly 100 orchestras and ensembles across the US, Canada, and SA that will follow my lead.
My point:
UE, continue this course and even by EU copyright I'll ensure that you are out of business by 2010. Even if it means spending my millions on your demise. Just kidding. I'm one person. You are a corporation. What could I really do to you?
(oh that's right. I live for 70 years. How short life is without purpose....)
Hmph. Is that a veiled threat? Maybe....
You were wrong. One spanner in the works screws up the governing parties...I formally request a statement withdrawing your CLAIM providing the parts IN QUESTION that ARE UNDER QUESTION are withdrawn be posted HERE in the forums, AND an apology to the owner of this website be posted HERE under your own "Nom de Plume" This site has done NOTHING to warrant the BARRISTRY that you have tried to dictate, wether it be at your behest, or your CDN$10/hr lawyers.
I expect a post within 72 hours of this, since I KNOW you are monitoring this forum. The parts that you are questioning will be removed. You already have been notified that this will happen; IF they are a violation of CA copyright law.
It seems that there are substantial members of the community out there that resent having to PAY big money for parts that are SUPPOSED to be in PD. My personal solution was paying USD$1 for anything I've got in my library.
IMSLP has more time, resources and personnel than I do. What I DO have is money. AND the desire to ensure that PD is exactly that; PD.
My war: All publishers. My goal: All publishers out of business.
I offer scholarships, to ALL students. I give away USD$7000 a year already. DVM.com is my way of increasing that. Any publishers that stand in the way of this WILL be crushed. I'm new, I've got money, and I've got the desire to go head-to-head with everybody. Legally.
IF I were to take over IMSLP and keep it running. I would like NOTHING to change. The same mods and admins that kept it going are still "employed". I will maintain the financial burden, including legal fees.
I'm sorry, I don't get scared as easily. I know copyright law.
I even know Mexico, Afghanistan and Cote D'Ivoire copyrights. However, it seems unreasonable to me that CA citizens are subject to EU copyright law....OH... I FORGOT!!!
YOU ARE NOT!!!!!!
I love paying legal fees....simply because i don't.
Seems I'm a celebrity. Well, to a certain extent......Lawyers like that. Means they get publicity. I'm prepared to offer my lawyers 75% of all proceeds from lawsuits.
They like that. Especially mine. Money is nice, and they have bills to pay.
However, I've got morals and ethics.
PD means EVERYONE can use it. EU + 70 so be it. Stick to EU law, and prosecute all who download illegal parts. You CANNOT prohibit a site from following it's country's own Copyright laws.
Majority of IMSLP users are from CA and US.
You want ISP tracking.....Forget it. I'll go along with it if YOU PAY the fees. Oh, that's right. You can't.
EU publishing houses cannot even begin to fathom their losses when the internet was non-existant. You cannot even BEGIN to understand...
Your regime is over. I am not a pirate. Never will be. However there is something here.... It's called MUSIC.
In a time of the decay of classical music in the world, you stifle it.
In a time of the decay of moralism, you stifle it.
Now you will pay, and I will make sure of it if you pursue this course.
I will be happy to completely fund and take over IMSLP, as long as nothing changes. This means that the same personnel take care of the forums and the status of works, including everything that has currently been done .
I can maintain US servers as well as CN servers. I will even host EU servers if need be.
It's not about the money. It's about the service.
Is it a conflict of interests between the sites? Yes. I'm willing to accept that. It's called "freedom of advertising". When it comes to my sites, I'm hoping that the added "charitable downloads" will make it worthwhile.
Enough already. I'm tired and need to go to bed. I've followed these forums very closely since the UE fiasco, and I'm fed up. Was it a matter of time? Yes. Is it time someone stepped forward? Yes. Our lifespan is too short to sit back and be complacent. My fellow Americans, sadly enough are letting this happen on other levels. Here is ONE American who WILL NOT sit idly by and let things continue on this course. I WILL accept responsibility. Yes, the below number IS my real number and I WILL answer all calls. You like C&D letters? Me too. Gives me great satisfaction to send them.
Said my piece, and I'm out. My cel number in the US is 407-618-3655. I'll be on tour 11/25-12/18. My phone is with me. I personally would like to speak with any people concerned with IMSLP.
Comments and concerns please field me.
Paul Fleury
www.cellopro.net
www.dollarviolinmusic.com
Last edited by cellopro on Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.