PD status of #433796 (Handel's Messiah, Halle/Barenreiter edition)

[Bhm]

I've noticed that score #433796, which used to be available on IMSLP, has now been blocked pending copyright review. That alone wouldn't cause me to comment on it, but it's been going on for at least a few weeks now.

Since this is an urtext edition of a public-domain work, this edition should mostly be public domain. The only issue I can identify is the German translation, which is printed alongside the original English text. (The translator died in 1994; his contribution won't become public domain for a long time.)

Assuming that the German translation is indeed the only issue, wouldn't it be possible to simply redact it, leaving only the English text in the score? Editions of several other vocal works have been prepared for IMSLP in exactly the same way.

[Eric]

someone then needs to create a wholly redacted version and -replace- the current version of #433796 with it using upload a new version of this file... if their translation is wholly interwoven with the text on each page and not just a few pages at the beginning of the score, that might be a little harder, but anycase, until that's done, I'm fairly sure that x isn't going anywhere, no...

[Sallen112]

Yeah it looks like the German translation included needs to be removed in the edition as the English is the original language for the work. Guessing Baerenreiter hired a translator to include German in the work. Basically if you think about it, this edition isn't exactly a scientific edition if a new translation is included, it is now a normal edition where the 25 year rule doesn't apply until the translation is removed.

This is not the first time I have seen Baerenreiter include things that are not replicating what the original manuscript has only which is not a scientific edition, otherwise this would have to be only in English. The Neue Bach Ausgabe on Series VII Band 7 is a reconstruction volume of the incomplete or lost concerti of Bach that was done by a reconstructor who died too recently. There has been some arguments made that those reconstructions are not original enough and just copying the Harpsichord concertos on some of them, but I compared them and there are differences between that to the Band 7 and its up in the air if they are original or not so were not including that volume on here.

[Bhm]

The German translation is indeed printed below the original English "line-by-line" on each page. Still, removing it shouldn't be too difficult.

One possible other issue I noticed in connection with this is the use of down-stem voice in small type to accommodate the German translation when its rhythm doesn't match the original English. This down-stem voice sometimes alters beams and sometimes splits or joins notes.

Here's an example of what I mean, from another score whose PD status isn't in question. It's a slightly more egregious example, though, since there it's the translation that's "prioritized", with the original language in the down-stem voice:

Translation.PNG (11.18 KiB) Viewed 3604 times

Do I need to remove the down-stem voice as well, or is removing just the German text enough?

[Bhm]

Another issue that I noticed is that the first page, which contains the edition, series, and volume (Halle Handel Edition, I/17) is supposed to be even-numbered. There's nominally a page before that, of course, but it's blank. I would add back the blank page to correct the parity of all the remaining pages, but I also wouldn't want it to be removed during clean-ups in the future. Maybe I can use the front cover for this purpose instead? It's on IMSLP as an image right now, rather than as part of the main document.

[ScoreUpdater]

Yes, you can use the front cover for that purpose.