NON "Optimized" orchestral Scores

[jm_1234321]

NON "Optimized" orchestral Scores.

"Optimization" means hiding of staffs that are music-less in that passage or section. It was a printing technique in the late 19th early 20th century.

Its benefit is fewer pages needed for printing.
But
"Optimization" ruins the "scope"/scale and flow of orchestral works for the student.

Good examples of non optimized orch scores are Schubert's 8th, edited by Brahms And Breitkoph and Haartel's _first edition_ Beethoven symphs.

Examples of optimization ruining the flow are later editions of Breitkoph and Haartel's Beethoven symphs (or republishing of them optimized by the re publisher).

Rimsky korsakov's Scheherazade comes to mind as an especially poor choice of score for optimization.

There must be a full score version of N Rk's Scheherazade out there un optimized.

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Also Dvorak's 9th could be done again. Though it is not optimized (that's good), it is blurry or over saturated.

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Thanks IMSLP

[steltz]

First of all, I realize you haven't used all caps, but your very enlarged letters can also be seen as shouting, so please refrain from doing this.

You might want to read viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3149 -- the forum rules.

Secondly, the works you are asking for are very common, so it is possible that we have what exists that is PD. If it is generally the earlier scores that are optimized, those are also the ones that tend to be the PD scores.

[jm_1234321]

First of all, I realize you haven't used all caps, but your very enlarged letters can also be seen as shouting, so please refrain from doing this.

You might want to read viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3149 -- the forum rules.

Secondly, the works you are asking for are very common, so it is possible that we have what exists that is PD. If it is generally the earlier scores that are optimized, those are also the ones that tend to be the PD scores.

Did you read MY post above?

What makes you think that I haven't looked through IMSLP for what I'm requesting? Indeed the word "redone"(used by me above for Dvorak's 9th) should be a give away.

The type face I chose was to separate what I was actually requesting from my preface digression about why what I'm requesting is a positive. (Also this notion that capitalization or bold etc is "shouting" is some weird internetism I haven't conformed (not that I ever use all caps). ...It was thunk up by the same mediocre who invented the word "`taint", no doubt.)

[jm_1234321]

Request: A full score version of N Rk's Scheherazade out there _"un optimized."_

"Optimization" means hiding of staffs that are music-less in that passage or section. It was a printing technique in the late 19th early 20th century.

Its benefit is fewer pages needed for printing.
But
"Optimization" ruins the "scope"/scale and flow of orchestral works for the student.

Good examples of non optimized orch scores --here at IMSLP-- are Schubert's 8th, edited by Brahms And Breitkoph and Haartel's _first edition_ Beethoven symphs.

Examples of optimization ruining the flow are later editions, or republishings post PD, of Breitkoph and Haartel's Beethoven symphs.

The version of Scheherazade her at IMSLP is optimized (thus bad to me). Rimsky Korsakov's Scheherazade is an especially poor choice of score for optimization, given N RK's fame as orchestrator.

Now with PDFs, optimized scores should go the way of the dodo, since saving paper/money for capitalists won't be an issue. Also `landscape scores should make a comeback.

[steltz]

Nevertheless, some people find all caps (and very large letters) to be shouting, and therefore rude, and people are less likely to do a lot of scanning for you if they perceive you as rude.

I'm sure you have looked through IMSLP, but what I meant was that there might not be any PD unoptimized scores to scan, which would mean that IMSLP would not be able to host what you are looking for. I'm sure there are people who know what editions exist who would be able to say if what you are looking for exists in a PD edition.

[daphnis]

This is a very specific request, and I don't know of an un-optimized version of this score that is in the public domain myself. As for your opinion that it ruins the "scope/scale of orchestral works for the student", I personally disagree; students will adjust to that style of score (if an adjustment is even necessary since this is mostly the norm for most orchestral scores printed in the last century). For large orchestrations--even when printed on A3 paper--seeing empty staves are make it more difficult to focus on the musical activity, increase unnecessary page turns, and drastically increase the amount of paper needed, and thus the costs. To each their own...

[Carolus]

FYI, there are other reasons for publishers issuing "optimized" scores which trump the very minimal cost differences involved in printing a 72-page score versus one of a 100 pages. First and foremost is that conductors prefer to not continually flip pages. With well-done "French engraving" (the traditional term in English), a conductor can go through several systems before turning a page. Yes, weight and printing costs are a factor, but not nearly as significant one as you might think.

Also, prior to the days of computerized engraving, the up-front cost of producing a score was reduced by using this method. The difference between 100 pages of plate engraving and 72 pages was substantial as the price was usually calculated on a per page basis. Since computerized engraving only started in a significant way in the late 1980s, your odds of finding a public domain, un-optimized score of Scheherazade which is public domain are virtually nil. You can always use a program to make one yourself and post it here, of course.

[jm_1234321]

FYI, there are other reasons for publishers issuing "optimized" scores which trump the very minimal cost differences involved in printing a 72-page score versus one of a 100 pages. First and foremost is that conductors prefer to not continually flip pages. With well-done "French engraving" (the traditional term in English), a conductor can go through several systems before turning a page. Yes, weight and printing costs are a factor, but not nearly as significant one as you might think.

Also, prior to the days of computerized engraving, the up-front cost of producing a score was reduced by using this method. The difference between 100 pages of plate engraving and 72 pages was substantial as the price was usually calculated on a per page basis. Since computerized engraving only started in a significant way in the late 1980s, your odds of finding a public domain, un-optimized score of Scheherazade which is public domain are virtually nil. You can always use a program to make one yourself and post it here, of course.

Yes.

Before I read this here I was just thinking that some of it is page-turning related. This is also true for "landscape" scores (long pages are cumbersome).

BUT in the near future I could envision a world where all scores _--for the performer or conductor--_ would be on kindle-like devices where the systems would horizontally scroll along as the music progressed.

[jm_1234321]

This is a very specific request, and I don't know of an un-optimized version of this score that is in the public domain myself. As for your opinion that it ruins the "scope/scale of orchestral works for the student", I personally disagree; students will adjust to that style of score (if an adjustment is even necessary since this is mostly the norm for most orchestral scores printed in the last century). For large orchestrations--even when printed on A3 paper--seeing empty staves are make it more difficult to focus on the musical activity, increase unnecessary page turns, and drastically increase the amount of paper needed, and thus the costs. To each their own...

Re page turns see my reply to Carolus.

I saw an image of the hard bound cover of a big tome-like version of RK's Scheherazade. It did seem older. I wonder if that is 1) "unoptimized"; 2) a copyist's manuscript.